Who should write crits.

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LimeyDawg

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I'm posting this thread because I've noticed a great many folks here prefacing their crits with missives about their lack of knowledge or inability to crit on a certain level. Of course, what I'm putting here is my opinion, but I'd like to know what you think.

Poetry tends to be a lot like wine. If you buy in to the spin, then a certain eye is required for poetry just as a certain nose is supposedly required for the enjoyment of wine. It can be daunting to dive into a poem when you feel inadequate to the task of critting. If you ask yourself, however, what it is that a crit requires, then I think you'll find yourself up to it regardless of your background.

We don't post to critical forums for praise or, at least, I hope we don't. There are other forums for that. The purpose of a critical forum is to help the poet understand what works for you or what doesn't. You might wax poetic on the use of alliteration as a means to advancing the metaphor, or you might simply like a particular phrase or piece of word play that catches your attention. The converse is also true. You might not know an iamb from a dactyl, but you can certainly pick out parts of poems that don't work for you, that you simply don't like.

At this point, I've covered aspects of critting that likely encompass everyone here. Now, how to present a crit.
I'd like to suggest that anything you post in a thread be aimed at helping the poet. We all learned the value of how, what, why, where and when as children. It is valuable here too.
If you like a particular poem, don't simply say I love it. Why? For the simple fact that the poet needs to know what it is you like. Did you like the rhyme, the subject matter, the ending...tell the poet. The same thing goes for what you don't like. Tell the poet. Your background in poetry is less important than what you give the poet who posted here.

Of course, the poet is under no obligation to use your suggestions. The only obligation the poet has is to thank those kind enough to crit.

Anyone else have anything to add?
 

davids

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So here goes-as I said to louis I don't know a triolet from a chevrolet-however I have learned to say what is on my mind and in my heart-not here-learned that a while back-at any rate and for me at least-it seems -amazingly enough- that just by stating the way I feel about a work I have aided and abetted a few folks here-that feels good-just being a part of is worth the effort.
 

LimeyDawg

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Exactly, Dave. How much better would we be if all felt this way.
 

louiscypher

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There's a clear cut difference between dislike and hate: problem is though that most think the two are one and the same... tis sad!

Anyway, passion always speaks up first where as contempt be dumbfooks brooding Ninja.
 

davids

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There's a clear cut difference between dislike and hate: problem is though that most think the two are one and the same... tis sad!

Anyway, passion always speaks up first where as contempt be dumbfooks brooding Ninja.


dumbfooks brooding Ninjas just makes me laugh-laughing and passion-what a great combo-thanks Louis!!!!
 

louiscypher

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I structure most of my comments and posts to feed or inspire others works in progress, D

you are welcome to all or any ... tis just what I do cause I know no better *wink*
 

dreamteadee21

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I agree with this. Also, my favorite part about your opinion, is this: "If you like a particular poem, don't simply say I love it. Why? For the simple fact that the poet needs to know what it is you like. Did you like the rhyme, the subject matter, the ending...tell the poet. The same thing goes for what you don't like. Tell the poet. Your background in poetry is less important than what you give the poet who posted here."

Don't just say it was "good" or "I liked it" or "it was great", give more. Tell us why you liked it, your favorite line. Tell us if it confused you, if it scared you, if it was horrible. Explain. We can't make it better if we don't have the why. We need a lot of expression. That's the only way we can get better or make the body of work reach it's full potiental. And always be honest. I don't know about anyone else, but I love honesty. I love when people tell me the bad, ugly and terrible. Don't hold back. But don't come out be a mean person. There is a difference between hate and honest opinion. Know the difference.
 

kborsden

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How deep did you have to (know to) dig for this one?

But, I do agree with the sentiment, as will most others -- I hope :)
 

Stew21

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I think he found the sticky post about threads on critiquing and did some reading through the links.
 

William Haskins

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i rarely critique. but when i do, i demand the revision be made. i follow up. and if my changes are not incorporated in a reasonable amount of time (as determined by me, the most reasonable man alive), i start with the phone calls.

at first, i offer installment plans, where edits can be made in chunks that are convenient for the poet on a monthly basis.

if they refuse my plan or, if accepted, they fail to live up to the terms, then the threatening phone calls begin.

should those fail, the legal action commences: garnishment of vocabulary, ruin of reputation by reporting your failure to live up to your obligations to other critics and, finally, by having you stripped of all your poetry and forced to start over.

this, of course, is then reported to potential editors, who will refuse your work so as not to have their publications sullied by your abuse of the critique system.

finally, without any work to claim as your own and without anyone willing to give you work, you are reduced to a yammering and delusional ghost of a human being roaming the streets and shitting in alleyways.

these are stern consequences, no doubt. but they are consequences that you should have considered before you applied for critique.
 

Kylabelle

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I'm very interested in the threatening phone calls. Where do I apply?
 

Steppe

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Thank you William. Very funny with a lot of truth behind it (or in front of it).

Problem for me with the critique, is that I just don't know when to get off the subjective. I'm sure it enters into it somewhere with all critiques. Perhaps it should wait till the very end. Seems to me that when I do leave it till last, I'm quite lost for awhile. Only by very hard work and thought can I get something down that will help the author.
 

Magdalen

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i rarely critique. but when i do, i demand the revision be made. i follow up. and if . . .
if they refuse my plan or, if accepted, they fail to live up to the terms, then . . .. you are reduced to a yammering and delusional ghost of a human being roaming the streets and shitting in alleyways.

these are stern consequences, no doubt. but they are consequences that you should have considered before you applied for critique.

I've been known to give (and get) all that and more, plus I have wipes. Given that, I hope everyone who visits the crit forum will leave a trace, even a faint spoor, of their visit! Yep.
 

William Haskins

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your ellipses take my comments out of context and make me sound like a monster.
 

Kylabelle

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You just don't want to take responsibility for creating all those yammering delusional ghosts that are everywhere now.
 

skelly

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You just don't want to take responsibility for creating all those yammering delusional ghosts that are everywhere now.

Now you know where I was for the last five years.
 

Kylabelle

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Mags, can I borrow a few wipes? They may be effective against yammering.

- - - Updated - - -

Now you know where I was for the last five years.

I won't ask about the alleys.
 

Magdalen

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I've been known to give (and get) all that and more, plus I have wipes. Given that, I hope everyone who visits the crit forum will leave a trace, even a faint spoor, of their visit! Yep.

your ellipses take my comments out of context and make me sound like a monster.

that just makes me want to give you a juice box.
 

C.bronco

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We could set up a phone chain.


Yanno, I am not big on critiquing. I might point out what I like, what might be unecessary and what might be developed. Usually, however, I just take in the poem. Usually we can put it out there, and can tell if it is something that either did what we hoped or didn't.

(phone chain comment was in response to Kylabelle's post.)
 
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B.D. Eyeslie

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i rarely critique. but when i do, i demand the revision be made. i follow up. and if my changes are not incorporated in a reasonable amount of time (as determined by me, the most reasonable man alive), i start with the phone calls.

at first, i offer installment plans, where edits can be made in chunks that are convenient for the poet on a monthly basis.

if they refuse my plan or, if accepted, they fail to live up to the terms, then the threatening phone calls begin.

should those fail, the legal action commences: garnishment of vocabulary, ruin of reputation by reporting your failure to live up to your obligations to other critics and, finally, by having you stripped of all your poetry and forced to start over.

this, of course, is then reported to potential editors, who will refuse your work so as not to have their publications sullied by your abuse of the critique system.

finally, without any work to claim as your own and without anyone willing to give you work, you are reduced to a yammering and delusional ghost of a human being roaming the streets and shitting in alleyways.

these are stern consequences, no doubt. but they are consequences that you should have considered before you applied for critique.
I really like your post. Good job. Nice poem, er nice post.
 

Kylabelle

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Thank you William. Very funny with a lot of truth behind it (or in front of it).

Problem for me with the critique, is that I just don't know when to get off the subjective. I'm sure it enters into it somewhere with all critiques. Perhaps it should wait till the very end. Seems to me that when I do leave it till last, I'm quite lost for awhile. Only by very hard work and thought can I get something down that will help the author.

I don't know how to crit at all, really. I try to say clearly what works for me and what doesn't and I try to verbalize why, and though I make a point of acknowledging how subjective it is I still feel I am not really being helpful and sometimes maybe even piss people off. Thing is, I want the reciprocal comments so I have to keep slapping together these dry ham sandwiches.
 
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