Industry acceptability of "Tight" and "Very Tight" scripts in Final Draft

i don't think anyone can really answer this question. if you get a rejection letter it may give you specific reasons why they're passing but that reason will not be, "we loved your writing but the spacing is too tight on your formatting".

if your story is so good that they can't put it down then formatting stuff will not keep them from liking your script.
but anything less than stellar... they can and will find any excuse to dump your script in the trash.

personally, i wish FD didn't have all the "cheat" functions. it makes people think they can get accepted by cheating. and the truth is... it's all about the content and style of the writing, the strength in the story, and finding the production company that's looking for exactly what you have to offer.

NikeeGoddess said:

if your story is so good that they can't put it down then formatting stuff will not keep them from liking your script.

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But couldn't it keep them from reading it in the first place? If they get a 120 page script with narrow format they will know that in reality it isn't 120 pages. For an unproduced spec writer that could mean the difference between the trash can and the thorough readthrough.

The reality is that if they have your script ("they" being a producer, agent, or managers-- competitions do not apply for this) then, they requested it based on the strength of your query letter or pitch, whether it be written or verbal.

They will read it...
From beginning to end...
Regardless of formatting flaws, tightness, etc...

If they personally do not read it, they will have a reader do so, or an assistant, but it will get read.

If the story is great and the characters are real and interesting and you can really feel for this story, then that is what it will say in the coverage...

Something like; "Great story! i couldn't put it down. The hero is both strong and sympathetic. The ending was a complete surprise and ever so satisfying. I strongly recommend this script. Oh... It was formatted tight and will need to be trimmed quite a bit."

Producers could care less about the mechanics of your script. Currently, I have two established producers (they work together) reading a first draft of just the first act of my newest endeavor and they could care less about how bad my writing is at this stage of the process. Concept is what sold them and they are willing to read anything and everything I got-- regardless of how it looks. I told them up front it is s=ill in early stages of writing, but they wanted to read it anyway.

Concept is king, story is queen, characters are princes and princesses and formatting is the court jester.

Yes, your formatting and grammar should be very good, especially when you do not have industry connections or a recognizable name, and especially when you are submitting a finished script, but do not forget that the story and your pitch is far more important than whether or not it looks too tight.

As for your page count. Go through it and keep trimming. Cut a sentence down to the point that one more word taken out would ruin it. If you have only a word or a few on a line, bring it up to the one above (lose those orphans). Keep your dialog snappy and to the points and make your writing active. Passive writing by nature eats up more words. If you need to cheat a margin here and there, go ahead, but don't get so hung up on it.

If your story is good, taking twenty or more pages (or even entire scenes that are not crucial) out will not ruin it, if anything it will give you something to put back in during the development meetings once it goes into preproduction.

I think Tight or Very Tight formatting is way more acceptable than bad formatting. Bad margins or the equivalent would be far worse.

The cheekiest thing I've done was when I had a 121 page script that I desperately wanted to be 120. Convinced there was nothing I could remove or trim (God, was I ever that young?) I opted instead to slip an 'A' page in the middle of the script. So the page count went, 56, 57, 58, 58A, 59, 60. It was still 121 pages long but a quick glance at the last page revealed only 120 pages.

It didn't improve the script but it made me feel better.

Don't do it. It's cheating and it's obvious. Cut the pages. Even if it weren't all that obvious (which it is) it will still read longer, and an experienced reader/producer/agent/manager/etc will know that something is wrong with it. It'll feel heavy, a little too long. They may just think it's a slow read, which is not a good thing. No cheats. Cut the pages.

Tight

I wouldn't take the chance. Concept or not, I've seen an awful bunch of scripts rejected unread because of poor format and because of incorrect length, and it's usually very easy to tell you really have more than 120 pages there, even if they're "tight."

Really, the script will have to be cut anyway, so do the smart thing and cut it now.

Plot Device said:

This isn't a formatting question, nor a techy question. It's a will-they-reject-it-on-first-glance question:

Q. Has anyone here ever taken their Final Draft script, found it was too long, and then used the Final Draft formatting trick called "Tight/Very Tight" to shorten it? If so ... is that "okay?"


If you don't know what I'm talking about, read on and I'll explain ....

The Microsoft Word equivalent is to tinker with the line-spacing.

Such as .....

Here's a bit of dialogue:

....................STEPHEN
..........Yo.



Now .... just underneath "STEPHEN" but just above "Yo" is a strip of white empty space that is exactly one (1) "point" tall (it's called "Line Spacing" in Microsoft and called the same in Final Draft). If you want to, you can shrink the height of that blank space throughout the entire length of your script to just .9 or .8 or .7, etc., thus tightening up your pages. This does NOT mess with the Courier 12-point, nor with the margins. Only the blank spaces in between each line of print have been messed with.

From what I can see, Final Draft's "Tight" mode allows you to shrink that blank strip down to just .89 tall, and "Very Tight" mode allows you to shrink it down to what looks like .68 tall. And this DOES shrink your pages.

My question is ...... it's pretty darned obvious to the trained eye that this has been done. But the 12-point Courier is still being satisfied and all margins are intact. So .... will a professional script reader toss this in the trash the second he sees the "Tight/Very Tight" feature has been used? Or is it "allowed?" If it's NOT allowed, why did Final Draft even include it in the software?

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I think that they included it because they are marketing not only to professionals but also to amateurs and it's included for the same reason that games give you the opportunity to cheat. This is simply a way that people who are "playing" at writing screenplays can cheat the length.

The only trouble is, for people who literally read dozens of scripts a week, they can tell within a page or two if the format has been played with to tighten up the script. Doing that is no different from writing an overlong script and is frowned upon, if anything, even more because:

A) a tight-formatted script is harder on the eyes and:

B) because it's clear to the reader that you're trying to pull something over on them by making them think that the script is shorter than it really is and:

C) scripts that have formatting mistakes (which this is) much like scripts that have grammatical mistakes or spelling mistakes -- while they may be great -- are far more likely not to be great. So doing something like this is essentially priming a reader who already brings almost no expectations to your script to begin with, to have even fewer expectations than they already have.

So don't do it.

NMS

Plot you are missing,

overlooking, or ignoring a MAJOR issue.

26 pages = 26 min of film.
In reality, depending on what those 26 min are you could add 30 min to a film. 30 min is a LOT of time.
30 min is enough time for someone to say, "I don't want to sit through this." "I don't want this in my theater because that is 30 min of a second film I can't show." "That is 30 min of Jim Carry's time I can't/won't pay 15 million for."

Something you don't want someone to do is be planning out YOUR film, talking money, and suddenly go "Great Bruce Allmighty this thing is actually 2 hours and 30 minutes!!!! Not the two hours we'd thought."

And who will they be glaring at?

Swallow your bad luck Plot, buy a chainsaw and cut the crap out of your script.

Don't cheat. Write tight.

Fine, you've got a big story, lots going on. Tighten up your writing style.
Frag your sentences.
Um, somewhere around here is an older thread about fragmented sentences. Look that one up. I posted an example of super tight writing.

Thank me Plot

THANK ME!

You get a script read and moving forward and them someone figures out (they will) that you cheated
you'll be dead in the water.

One page, two or three maybe, ten perhaps could be rewritten to trim the script down, but 26!!! That's a big cheat.

If they like the concept they WILL overlook YOU for the rewrites as you obviously can't be trusted to work the industry way.

Remember when it comes to editing, it's easier to remove chunks than chip away at sentences. If you're brave enough, you'll find you can eiliminate entire set pieces, sub-plots or particular gags to no great effect much more easily than trying to make all those four line paragraphs into three line paragraphs.

There's that

and then there is also being able to really focus on the strongest points, issues, and themes of the story.

A focused, strong story is truly a wonderful thing.

I think one leads to the other.

I didn't say it is a no biggie.

Maybe I ramble at times, but the point I wanted to make was don't get so hung up on mechanics, worry about making your script the best it can be in characters, story and such.

Other than that, what I said was (and I repeat)

As for your page count. Go through it and keep trimming. Cut a sentence down to the point that one more word taken out would ruin it. If you have only a word or a few on a line, bring it up to the one above (lose those orphans). Keep your dialog snappy and to the points and make your writing active. Passive writing by nature eats up more words. If you need to cheat a margin here and there, go ahead, but don't get so hung up on it.

If your story is good, taking twenty or more pages (or even entire scenes that are not crucial) out will not ruin it, if anything it will give you something to put back in during the development meetings once it goes into preproduction.

In other words. Don't use the tight feature. Instead, make your script tight in the writing and in the story.

The answer I was looking for was either:

"I have submitted a tightened script and it didn't get rejected"

or

"I have read tightened scripts and I didn't mind."

Click to expand...

asked... and answered.

i don't think anyone can really answer this question. if you get a rejection letter it may give you specific reasons why they're passing but that reason will not be, "we loved your writing but the spacing is too tight on your formatting".

Click to expand...

scripter1 said:

Swallow your bad luck Plot, buy a chainsaw and cut the crap out of your script.

Don't cheat. Write tight.

Fine, you've got a big story, lots going on. Tighten up your writing style.
Frag your sentences.
Um, somewhere around here is an older thread about fragmented sentences. Look that one up. I posted an example of super tight writing.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I have no idea what your script is about, Plot, but at 270 pages...that's a lot of dead trees, and a four and a half hour long movie. I'm not at all intending to sound snide when I say that if your script is that long, maybe formatting isn't the problem.

As Scripter said, write tight. Look at ways you can lower the page count not by monkeying with the spacing, but by tightening up the story, losing anything not absolutely essential to telling it. You might even find combining two characters into one, or just cutting one out altogether, to be helpful.

Again, no idea what your script is about but if you're not James Cameron making Titanic II nobody will want to read a script that long -- unless you've already knocked them right the hell out with a wicked good query letter or you're related to Bruce Willis.

To Plot Device.
My tutor(teacher) told me "Your best friend is the axe".
I Pondered this "An axe?...My best friend?...Mmmmmm,yeeeesssss!". Upon returning from my garden shed,axe in hand, I quickly set about performing some DIY alterations to my furniture.
Sorry.
He is right though.
There are certain ways of writing which keep the Action(descriptive)passages and the Dialogue,short and sweet.
One way,is a very Staccato style,like using short, sharp punches.
Yet all the important details are still included.
It makes for a quick,smooth read.
Shane black(Leathal Weapon) uses what they call the left hand technique,whereby new sentences,always start on the left hand side.
This technique,keeps the script flowing.
Most of the Screenwriting websites I have looked at,and the books I have read,say the same thing.
Economy of words!!!
Daniel.

When I worked as a reader I pretty much ignored any script that didn't follow proper formatting. I also would throw things out as soon as they turned me off. If everything is smushed on a page, it turns me off.

You could do this but it doesn't help you. It may hurt you, it may not, but it doesn't help you.

You want to do everything possible to get your script read. So it makes sense to just follow the standard. Who knows what is going to turn a reader or a producer off that day. Don't give them any reason to throw your script away unread. Give it the best chance possible.

aside from all that advice
if you send your script electronically in FD they can always check the formatting so you wouldn't be fooling anyone and it might turn people off to receive a 120 page "tight" script that really turned out to be 150 pages "untighted".

Send your script to me. I'll hack it. I'm sure there is still quite a bit of stuff you could trim. When you trim and tighten, the real way, you make your story better. You want he pages to fly not grind slowly by, or they will be dying to get it out of their hands because it's taking them forever to make any progress.

Well Plot

144 is not bad at all.
That's an honest script. A first draft.
You should feel pleased that you've really trimmed it down.

And don't think that none of us knows what it feels like. Most writers start out overwriting. Or many of us come from novels first and then get hooked on scripts.

My first script had to come down from a 300 page novel.
The first draft came in at 175.

So you know, I feel your pain.
AND it is very possible.