Acceptable page count for a spec script

Plot Device · Apr 26, 2007

What is the absolute highest page-count acceptable for a spec before they laugh and toss it in the trash?

I have a script with a first draft that ended at 270 pages. Second draft was 250. I am now down to 220. It's getting leaner and leaner all the time. I can't get rid of too much more.

I have a general target of 150 pages, but I don't know if I can accomplish that at this point. If I can at least get it UNDER the 3-hour mark (less than 180 pages) would THAT make it acceptable??? I think I can hit 170, but 150 is really pushing it.

Bravo · Apr 26, 2007

Plot Device said:
What is the absolute highest page-count acceptable for a spec before they laugh and toss it in the trash?

less than 120.

should be closer to 110 at most.

i'm not kidding.

what on earth are you doing w a 270 page script???

Plot Device · Apr 26, 2007

Bravo said:
what on earth are you doing w a 270 page script???

Sarcastic reply: I enjoy killing trees.

Honest reply: That's how long the story played itself out when it was done coming out of my fingers. Don't yell at me, yell at the muse.

Rainy Night · Apr 26, 2007

Okay Quentin Tarantino, cut your scipt in half and make it two movies.

Roughly 90-120 pages is standard, and lately they like then closer to the 90 page than the 120.

dpaterso · Apr 26, 2007

If you're a spec writer with no connections, 120 ought to be your absolute ceiling. The pros suggest circa 110 pages, which is what I aim for.

Can you find two natural breaks in your script (@ around 90 pages and 180 pages) that would allow you to split the 270-page monster into three 90-minute episodes? Pitching it as a mini-series rather than as an overlong feature-length script might get you something.

Oh, and write the novel and make sure it's a best-seller.

-Derek

Plot Device · Apr 26, 2007

dpaterso said:
Can you find two natural breaks in your script (@ around 90 pages and 180 pages) that would allow you to split the 270-page monster into three 90-minute episodes? Pitching it as a mini-series rather than as an overlong feature-length script might get you something.

I'm kinda hazey as to where Act 1 ends and where Act 2 ends. I'm a very intuitive writer, not very methodical at all. So the story in my head played out in a certain fashion, I wrote it out like that, and then it was done. I never had a 3-act structure in mind. So I think there are 3 acts SOMEWHERE in there. But I am hard-pressed to say PRECISELY where all three acts fall.

There IS a good scene of suspense/cliff-hanger that MIGHT be the correct end of Act 1 around page 59, and another good one around page 85, and another around page 98. So one of those three MIGHT be correct ending of Act 1. But I'm still not certain here. And I have no clue what the correct ending of Act 2 is at all.

dpaterso said:
Oh, and write the novel and make sure it's a best-seller.

Ha! That might be my only option here!

scripter1 · Apr 26, 2007

Um, seriously,

not to brag but to illustrate a point.

I recently took a 247 page script down to 112.
You would not believe what can be cut when you actually really start doing it.

There is a pretty darn good chance that you are NOT Tarentino and will NOT get a two picture deal.
What's his name....... Peter Jackson of Lord of the Rings fame had to fight and claw and threaten all kinds of things to get three films made.

SO, strip it down.
I mean really just yank it down to bare bones.
I'm with Bravo. How the he----- heck did you get a 270 page script?

And I don't mean to sound cold or cruel, but You aren't sure if your act one break comes until page 98? The approximate page count where most scripts either HAVE or ARE closing in on the CLIMAX?
This tells me you have quite a bit to learn about storytelling in general.

In all honesty Plot, set your script aside.
You have three drafts done, you're past the fresh idea stage, you've gotten alot of things out of your system, time to begin a really serious, hardcore study of the craft.

Shooting you over some articles.
Enjoy.

NikeeGoddess · Apr 26, 2007

there's a pretty good chance that you've got pages and pages of overwritten crap that doesn't need to be there. ditto what scripter said - put the script down and come back to it for a rewrite after you've read 20 and written 2 more.

scripter1 · Apr 26, 2007

And yes,

I'm somewhat with D, a three part mini series isn't a bad idea.

But for a spec script, the answer is NO!
The chances are so astronomical ANYWAY you don't want to start off handicapped with a long, long script.

SO, cut cut cut cut cut cut cut.

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/articles/cuttingc.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips325.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips281.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips340.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips136.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips238.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tips216.htm

All right, you've probably hit info overload.

Bravo · Apr 26, 2007

PD:

you need to read more scripts.

you need to learn that there is a structure for spec scripts, and a 90 pg act I doesnt fit the bill.

this was a newbie mistake, that's fine. if you are absolutely enamored by your story, i suggest you redo it from scratch and see what sticks and what doesnt.

but before you even do that, you need to read more scripts and you need to read a basic intro to the way a screenplay is structured.

it's a very specific formula and if you want to get anywhere with this, you have to write what people will read.

i can guarantee that your mother wont even read you 270 pg behemoth.

thank you

Ragnarok · Apr 27, 2007

Plot Device said:
I have a script with a first draft that ended at 270 pages. Second draft was 250. I am now down to 220. It's getting leaner and leaner all the time. I can't get rid of too much more.

You can post one page (or more) of your script on the critique board to get feedback on the way it looks (one with not too much dialog). Like NG, I have a feeling there's quite a bit of overwritten stuff.

You can also check out your margins and font. If you use Final draft, do choose their native courier font over courier new. It will save you quite a few pages. Their templates (esp Warner bros) can have their margins tweaked a bit. For instance, the left margin for Sluglines and action is 1.75" while 1.5" won't offend any reader. You can make their dialog block a tiny bit wider too. This all will save you another batch of pages... after you've worked on the structure of your script and trimmed out the extraneous parts.

dpaterso · Apr 27, 2007

PD can speak for him/herself, but some of the later comments in this thread might interest y'all:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61650

-Derek

xhouseboy · Apr 27, 2007

dpaterso said:
PD can speak for him/herself, but some of the later comments in this thread might interest y'all:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61650

-Derek

Looks like Plot's question has already been answered in her own blog.

Bravo · Apr 27, 2007

xhouseboy said:
Looks like Plot's question has already been answered in her own blog.

weird!

but it's awesome people read it, and seemed to love it.

no exec will, but at least her writing seems to be good.

Rainy Night · Apr 27, 2007

Can you post the first 10 pages in the SYW forum. I'm curious.

Plot Device · Apr 27, 2007

Well, this is quite the mixed bag of responses. Some nice, some not so nice. And I wanna thank Derek for directing people's attentions to that other thread and diffusing the abuse I was getting.

The word "crap" is something I found particularly hurtful and unnecessary, especially since that poster doesn't even know the story I'm writing. (And my mother DID read my script and she liked it a lot, thank you.)

Not all stories are two hours in the telling.

I wanna TRY to make this one fit the two-hour mold, but it's getting difficult. I'm now down to 215 pages and I'm cutting so deeply I'm afraid I'm gonna hit a major artery soon. So either I sell it as a mini-series, or I amputate one of my subplots.

I can't imagine I'm the only one who thinks up elabortae story arcs. Surely others here have lengthy stories kicking around in their heads. Am I the only one who actually wrote one out?

Plot Device · Apr 27, 2007

Rainy Night said:
Can you post the first 10 pages in the SYW forum. I'm curious.

Yes I can. But I'm stumped on how to maintain the formatting. I have dual-dialog happening in that first ten pages and if I don't post it correctly, all that dual dialog will get mushed around and distorted. I need some time to try and get it right. Can you guys wauit until maybe later this afternoon for me to post it?

jonpiper · Apr 27, 2007

Plot Device said:
Can you guys wauit until maybe later this afternoon for me to post it?

Sorry, Plot Device. Can't wait. Gotta do lunch with an agent at noon. Rest of the day is booked with pitches at Disney and Paramount.

Only kidding. Post it and I'll read it on my cell phone between pitches. Seriously, I think we'd all like to see what you've got and help if we can.

Plot Device · Apr 27, 2007

jonpiper said:
Sorry, Plot Device. Can't wait. Gotta do lunch with an agent at noon. Rest of the day is booked with pitches at Disney and Paramount.

Show off!

jonpiper · Apr 27, 2007

I dream a lot.

Rainy Night · Apr 27, 2007

jonpiper said:
Sorry, Plot Device. Can't wait. Gotta do lunch with an agent at noon. Rest of the day is booked with pitches at Disney and Paramount.

Hey, me too. I got a pitch at Universal, then it's over to CBS, lunch at DuPar's - then Disney and Paramount... sheesh what a day...

Next week'll be more relaxing... I'll be on the set of my new big budget thriller that's currently shooting in Venice, some two bit actor's really messing up my dialogue and I have to straighten him out... you know Tom, he just can't leave anything alone... oh wait... who threw water in my face? Was I posting in my sleep again... I can only dream.

ALLWritety · Apr 27, 2007

Thick Skinned

HI PD,
If you think it is tough here just wait till you get in SYW. In this forum you have to pretty thick skinned or well intenioned bods will just tear you apart. People here really want to help but some don't have the tack. Take what is needed and remember it is not a personal attack on you.

Kev

Rainy Night · Apr 27, 2007

KCpotatohead said:
HI PD,
If you think it is tough here just wait till you get in SYW. In this forum you have to pretty thick skinned or well intenioned bods will just tear you apart. People here really want to help but some don't have the tack. Take what is needed and remember it is not a personal attack on you.

Kev

Actually I think this forum is fairly mild compared to others where they just rip your heart out and show it to you as you fall dead.

Although... there was this "crap ending" comment I got a while back... :poke:

Only kidding

RainbowDragon · Apr 27, 2007

Rainy Night said:
Hey, me too. I got a pitch at Universal, then it's over to CBS, lunch at DuPar's - then Disney and Paramount... sheesh what a day...

You guys still have to pitch to get a movie made?!

(kidding!! but it's a nice thought, anyway)

Rainy Night · Apr 27, 2007

RainbowDragon said:
You guys still have to pitch to get a movie made?!

(kidding!! but it's a nice thought, anyway)

Yeah I know... I need a new agent.

Acceptable page count for a spec script

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