Hiya folks

Thanks for the welcome, and don't worry too much about grammar. Ain't is a perfectly good colloquialism. I feel it's frequently more descriptive than the correct terms, isn't or is not. It's also more versatile. Like, "I ain't gonna do it, ya can't make me!", dig in your heels with that line, and it's a lot more colorful than, "I will not do that. No matter how much you beg. I simply will not!" Right, "gonna" isn't proper English either, but let's say you're writing from the perspective of a hillbilly(son of the soil, I know I know), well, you see where I'm going with this one.

At any rate, if you're comfortable with "Ain't", then you're well on your way to writing believable, earthy, characters. Honestly, that's one of my peeves about writing. When people write stilted, grammatically correct, dialogue that doesn't ring true for their characters, it irks me.

Oh and don't get me started on, when the adjective cupboard is bare or overflowing. It's a peeve when reading, though I'm sure it's not irritating when writing. It's also very tricky for someone to write, just descriptively enough to satisfy the reader, and paint a picture. It's a lot like painting really, one adjective too many is like one brushstroke too many, while not enough adjectives, is like a quick sketch.

Oh, and I'm probably prone to mixed metaphors too. Not sure if I've used any yet, but they're bound to pop out eventually.

Hi Thanks again for the welcome. Put me in my place if I don't participate enough in forums. It takes me awhile to get in the swing with my writing, you know on the word processor, not here, here it's easy to write. So once I'm in the swing I'm stuck there for a good long while.

I PMed you Maryn. Yep, we know each other from the imdb boards. I just wasn't sure if the referer(sp?), was a default one or you, because you use a different name there. Happy to see it's you .

Don't let your sister get to you Turtle. Give her an Elmore Leonard novel to read and see if she explodes, hehe. She won't, but it'll drive her nuts(did you see my intentional use of poor grammar there? words are fun). It isn't that he's a bad writer, he's actually a really good writer, imho. It's just that some folks don't like his style(which does include people talking in their own voices with their own manners of speech and diction).

Oh, I hope I don't sound too nit-picky k1p1. I'm not usually, I just get cranky when I plunk down cash for a published novel, and it's craptastic. Unpublished drafts, I'm cool with, I know I'm prone to producing my own peeves(how funny is that?).

You guessed it folks I'm procrastinating. My back feels better, but now, I'm afraid to look at my pages(don't even have to lift anything, just have to open the window). I don't know how people finish in less than 3 years. Really, ever watch Harlan Ellison write a novel? He used to have his own show on the Sci-Fi channel. He went on a promotional tour and took the cameras along. He can write an entire novel in a day. No outline, no notes. Just sitting in front of an old typewriter, and he only types with two fingers! You heard me, well, read right, two fingers! When I saw it, I thought Wow! He's putting Stephen King to shame!.

So yeah, I'm procrastinating. I'm pretty good at it too. Wonder if that makes me a natural born artist or a natural born chump.

Turtle07 said:

Hehe, I think I might! Thanx for the advice! Never heard of him, I think I might check out his books. But seriously, y r people so antsy when it comes to grammar? I hate it when people start going slang on me and speak in words I don't understand, but I really hate it when people talk like refined ladies. It's almost the 22nd Century! (I think...I don't keep track of this stuff!!)

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Grammar serves a purpose. When you're writing you need it. In my mind, it's like, anything outside of speech and thought has to be grammatically correct. Ideally you can just automatically form sentences with proper grammar and not even try.

Some folks here are very capable of that, and I'm so thankful they aren't lording it over the rest of us. They're saintly in their patience with us poor pitiful souls, who just don't get it.

However, a character, won't always speak or think in proper grammar. Maybe they're uneducated/undereducated. Or maybe they're very much of their time and place. They might say: "I don't got no money". Of course, grammatically we know they just said they have some money, but in their time, place, and social status, they just said that they don't have any money.

I'm trying to not get too hung up on grammar while getting the story down on paper. Emphasis on trying. That said, I have every intention of going over my first draft with a fine tooth comb and magnifying glass. If I focus on everything being perfect(which a first draft probably won't be anyway), I'll never finish the first draft.

I would be careful of slang though. It's tricky to use slang, and not make a story feel dated(in a bad way). Still, how fun is it to make someone say "I'm hep to your jive, man!"? Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, and the only way to find out is to try. That said, I've never been good with current slang. My parents were quite a bit older than everyone else's so I used the phrase "Jive Turkey!", long past it's expiration date. By the time I figure out what a slang term means it's either too old, or I feel too strange using it.

I think your sister's just teasing though. I hope she is. Maybe she thinks teasing you about your grammar will force you to improve it. But if you're anything like me, you just resist more.

At any rate, I'm not saying grammar is bad. Not saying it doesn't serve an important function. Just saying don't sweat it untill you have to. You're bound to learn, every time you edit a story. So gradually, in terms of grammar, you'll have to edit less and less.

Oh but you could write a comedy story. Short one, where people don't talk like you expect them to. That would be a hoot! Imagine a couple of old west bounty hunters, talking and behaving like prim and proper ladies. They could even have tea parties out on the open range! Inept, at least when it comes to the practical side of things, they lug their full service, bone china, tea set, all over creation. They carefully wrap and unwrap it. Make sure the water's just the right temperature, before steeping the tea.

Oh and here's the extra funny: you flip the correct grammar! You heard me, flip it. The narrator could be an Annie Oakley type. A real, rootin'-tootin' cowgirl. She ain't prim. She ain't proper. She's a rowdy girl . But our heros, are prim and proper. Very refined. Think Frasier and Niles Crane. Fish out of water.

I don't think anyone would get mad at you(and I'm just riffing with the ideas). It would probably be good practice too.

ScarlettLeopard said:

Hi and welcome! Maybe you can do some writing while your back heals... or at least haunt the forum

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Been doing both actually. Lost my first four pages, save for one, plus a paragraph I asked for help on. Blessings in disguise. I had to rewrite, with fresh eyes, and I fixed some of the things suggested, without the help. Heehee, love when that happens.

Sleep patterns have gone erratic. So sleeping when I can.

Just once I'd like to get injured in a cool way. Even my one sports injury is stupid. Sure I tore the cartillage in my knee, but in the weakest way imaginable. Tiny hop for an easy lay-up and landed wrong. Dang! At least I got the points.

With my back, I just moved stupidly. Not even sure what I did. Someone should write a book on how to translate mundane events into a gripping memoir. Like my moving wrong could translate to - I fell off a horse, or I crashed my Harley. Something cooler than, I'm a spaz.

Hey, turns out I use slang after all! Just none of the fresh slang. Will "bling-bling" never die? Seriously, when 50 year old white people use an urban slang word, isn't it time to replace it?