screenplay queries - how much is too much?

tomvolz

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I'm batting around ideas for the query letter. The main character's identity is not revealed until near the end. Should I keep his name out of the query, or should I reveal it? My fear is that I'll ruin one of the major twists of the storyline. In my query for the novel, I came right out and said who it was. I still want to hold it back. But I understand what I need overrides what I want. Can I, in the query, have a clearly defined main character without saying who he is?

Also, this is based on a novel I wrote. I haven't found representation for it yet. Should I simply say something like, "...based off my novel," or should I just leave that out?

Thanks,
Tom
 

Joe Calabrese

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Without knowing the details, I can't comment on what to reveal in your query, but regardless it needs to give what the story is about with the conflict and goal for your hero, and if that means you have to spill the beans to get those points across, then so be it.

As for whether or not to mention the novel, sure, put it in. It shows that a) they have a novel to cross promote it already and b) shows you are passionate and c) you give the impression of being prolific in writing.
 

dpaterso

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But your main character does have an identity for most of the story, yes? And when the twist comes, he reveals his true identity? Kinda like Zorro? :) Can't you write that kind of phrasing into the query? "But then the shocking twist is revealed: Ed is really Mike, Daphne's insane brother, presumed lost at sea ten years ago!"

I've seen the view stated that unless a script is adapted from a successful published novel that may attract a fan base eager to see the movie, then it's not worth mentioning the novel. I'm just saying.

-Derek
 

tomvolz

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I refer to him as John Doe for action and dialogue, but no one calls him by name until lead-in for the last big action sequence.
 

Maryn

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Mentioning a novel that hasn't been published suggests to me that maybe it's not good enough to be published, whether that's true or not. It's possible that agents and prodcos might get the same impression.

It seems more okay to say something about the story taking the form of a novel until you realized it would make a better screenplay.

My understanding is that you never withhold endings, twists, or any other substantive plot element from an agent or prodco query letter. They need to know you've got a decent denouement, for one thing. For another, it's not nice--or professional--to tease agents by keeping the ending from them. They don't want to have to rise to your bait. Show 'em you've got the goods.

Maryn, who finds the query harder than the work itself
 

Joe Calabrese

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I'm not saying that you should write:

I originally wrote (insert title here) as a novel which I have been shopping around for a year with no success.

But I would put in a query letter:

I am also in the process of completing a novelization of (insert title here), to generate interest in this great story in various markets.

No one will ever know which was written first, so I would mention it in a positive way. make it sound like you got a package.


I am currently turning one of my scripts into a comic book and I have gotten more read requests from mentioning that then I ever did before doing the comic. Showing a few sample pages doesn't hurt either.

And I agree with Maryn.

Producers or agents do not want to read your script to find out the ending, they want to know the ending so they can decide whether or not to read it. Concept rules in a query.
 
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I've often struggled with this very question.

And I've always leaned in the direction of NOT revealing the surprise.

I think you should lead them up to that moment and make them want to know that something amazing or mind blowing will happen and that they can find out what that is if they read the screenplay.

Telling them the surprise ruins it IMO.

ANd they can go "Oh, that's the big surprise?" and it all falls flat.

"And it turns out that HE is Keyser Soze!!!"

Zzzzzzzzzz

in a query.

IMO.
 

Joe Calabrese

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Too much is played on the surprise here, but what is important is to tell the story in a query letter in a complete way.

You are selling a story, not a hook or a gimick or a surprise. That is unless the surprise is the story.

For example.

Forgive the sucky loglines, but I don't have time to make them kick ass, but you get the point.

A hero with amnesia and at the end discovers who he really is, is really about a journey of discovery, not necessarily what the answer is at the end and some times finds no answer. The surprise in this case can be the gravy and not the meat.

But on the other foot, a script that totally relies on the surprise, needs to be complete in a query.

The Sixth Sense, is about a jaded, down and out psychologist who after spending time with a boy who can see dead people, realizes that he is dead himself."

The surprise is the story because the story is riddled with clues to that end.

So if you are writing a sixth sense where everything hinges on the end surprise, then by all means put it in the query.

If it doesn't, then don't include it.

But in both cases, your query must be complete, the story in general and not necessarily the elements within unless it demands it.
 
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The Sixth Sense, is about a jaded, down and out psychologist who after spending time with a boy who can see dead people, realizes that he is dead himself."

The surprise is the story because the story is riddled with clues to that end.

So if you are writing a sixth sense where everything hinges on the end surprise, then by all means put it in the query.

And I don't think you should include the SiIxth Sense surprise in the query.

It takes everything away from reading the screenplay just as it takes everything away from seeing the movie.

I'd rather have less people read the screenplay because I only talked about in the query about a psychologist whose patient is a boy who talks to dead people and have them BLOWN AWAY after reading it than having more people read it who already know what the surprise is and not love it as much.

I think you can get plenty of people to read the screenplay based just on the "boy talking to dead people" idea.

But....

:Shrug:

Just my opinion.
 

Joe Calabrese

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Let it be known that I am an honest person who will always admit when I am wrong.

Although I think you should tell your surprise ending if it is "your story," using Sixth Sense was not a good example.

I just got off the phone with his assistant over at Blinding Edge Pictures (I call people for stupid reasons all the time), who assured me that when M. Night pitched the script, he did not reveal the surprise ending.

There. I was wrong to use that film as an example. I said it.
 
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Let it be known that I am an honest person who will always admit when I am wrong.

Although I think you should tell your surprise ending if it is "your story," using Sixth Sense was not a good example.

I just got off the phone with his assistant over at Blinding Edge Pictures (I call people for stupid reasons all the time), who assured me that when M. Night pitched the script, he did not reveal the surprise ending.

There. I was wrong to use that film as an example. I said it.

If you're wrong that must mean I'm right?

Did it happen?

Has my day finally come?!

I'm right about something!!

Ohhhhh...thank god.

I've waited years.
:)
 

dpaterso

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Here's an interesting quote attributed to M. Night Shyamalan that I picked up from somewhere (I can't find the source, dammit):

"It wasn't until about the fifth draft that I really began to figure it out. It was then that I realized he's dead. It took me five more drafts to execute it right."

If that is an actual quote, I wonder if he figured it out before or after he made the pitch?

Are you both right? (Not that I'd wish to interfere with Billy's moment of glory.)

Edit: it appears in a Wordplay column:
link removed via request from other site's Webmaster.
-Derek
 
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Are you both right? (Not that I'd wish to interfere with Billy's moment of glory.)

Nah.

Just because it worked out with M.Night doesn't mean it's necessarily the right way to go anyway.

I just think the big surprise should be left to the reader and if the only thing you have going in the script is the big surprise which makes you unable to get people to read it without saying what it is, you probably have problems with the script anyway.

IMO
 

tomvolz

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Just to clarify, the main character, a mysterous hitman, is refered to as John Doe for dialogue and action purposes. No one speaks his name until the final action scene. But there is a second twist to his identity - even when it is revealed, he turns out to be quite different than what everyone has come to believe he is. There are tons of clues leading up to it, especially in the book.

Sorry for the confusion (and this probably didn't help to clear any of it up).

Tom
 

Bravo

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this sounds like a mess right now.

let's see the logline.
 

dpaterso

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Bravo, please! Give the nice new member the benefit of the doubt, until proven guilty. :)

Tho' without having seen the logline or anything else, I must say that "John Doe" sounds kinda dull. For a mysterious hitman, that is.

Not to mention the fact that the name has been used in other movies... and mysterious hitmen are reckoned to be super-clichéd. I'm just saying.

-Derek
 
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Because of this thread, I had a dream last night with a surprise ending. True story.

I actually went "Wow" in my dream and said, "I think that's a movie" and that I'd better remember it when I woke up.

Then I woke up, did remember and thought "Eh. Maybe."

And now I think it's pretty weak. It might make a good half hour Twilight ZOne maybe. Not feature worthy. But it was still quite a little twist. I'm quite proud of the whatever that came up with it.

The subconscious mind and dreaming.

weird.wild.stuff
 

tomvolz

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Here's the novel query. It gives him away in the second sentence and exposes the sequence of twists.


He was supposed to have a slow week—a dead week. For a "guy" like Lucifer, things just couldn't be that damn easy. Since taking a human form, he roams the earth as a soul collector from Hell, killing people who have sold themselves to the devil. The catch—he's never been to Hell, nor does he plan on ever going there. His decision to assist in Satan's soul-hording endeavor is two-fold: it gives him a chance to lash out at the humans whom he blames for his exile, and it serves as the main conduit of his reckless plan to return to Heaven. Contrary to the traditional teachings of Christian mythology, Lucifer's a fallen angel (wait until you see his wings in the follow-up novel) who wants nothing more than to return to paradise.

Life on earth is full of surprises for this foul-mouthed and politically incorrect angel as he dodges the cops, the advances of a demonic transsexual and this strange new emotion he feels when he shows up to collect Sarah Brecker—the green-eyed, fiery-haired vixen whose image he can't seem to shake. During his fight to fall for her, Lucifer discovers he's at the center of a plot in which Satan may finally drag him into Hell. In the end, he must decide between waiting for Judgment Day or following that dull ache in his chest to save the woman who exposed him to love.

DYING FIRE, a fast-paced thriller, is packed with raw humor, violence, several semi-erotic scenes and a romance that shouldn't exist. This novel possesses enough religious controversy to rival that of Dan Brown’s Robert Langdon books and reads like Brian Haig on steroids.

The complete 80,000-word novel is available at your convenience. And you'll never look at a Vodka martini the same.


Lucifer's name isn't given until the showdown with Satan. And in the end, he turns out to be a "good guy." He's still raw and would make a horrible politician, but he ends up "saving" people instead of blaming them for his fall.

Sorry again for all the confusion. So, should I expose him in the query like I did for the novel? Or should I build it up for the surprise?

Tom