Trailers, the back of the box, foreshadowing, dramatic irony, etc.

BottomlessCup · Mar 29, 2007

*** Contains minor spoilers for the film "Hostel". And I suppose very minor spoilers for "Children of Men", although not anything you can't learn from the back of the box, which is kind of the point of the post. ***

So, I watched the horror film "Hostel" on DVD last night. It was disappointing. There's no blood or actual 'horror-stuff' for the first 50 minutes. During that time, it's basically a numb travelogue about a couple buddies in Europe getting drunk and having sex.

There's a slim subplot about a missing friend, but that's it - and he's just 'missing', not found bloody and mutilated or something. For the first 50 minutes, there's no evidence that you're watching a horror film at all.

It seems to me that the filmmakers were relying entirely on assumptions about what the audience already knows to provide the foreshadowing. Basically, they know you read the box, saw the trailer, etc. You know it's a horror film; you know there's blood coming.

It's kind of the ultimate form of dramatic irony (those idiots didn't even realize they're in a horror flick!).

I also watched "Children of Men", which was NOT disappointing. But after "Hostel", I was still thinking about the dramatic irony thing. The shock of the girl in COM being pregnant was ruined by the fact that I knew from box that she's knocked-up.

So...

As screenwriters, is it fair game to assume that the audience knows the gist of the concept? I would guess that 95% of the time, I know the basic idea of any film I see. Are we allowed to play with that?

As spec writers, it might be riskier, since the initial readers won't have any idea what the script is about, but still. It seems like something to consider.

I have a script about a rebel angel*. Some of my crits have bagged on me for revealing that she's an angel too soon. But, if it were a movie, nobody's would make it into the theater without knowing the movie's about an angel. So, I might as well get the reveal out of the way, right?

Is 'prior knowledge' something we have to take into consideration in our writing?

*Yes, I know. Angels are overdone. Thank you. Move on.

Rainy Night · Mar 29, 2007

In my opinion if it's something that the audience knows before they sit down to watch the film you're not revealing anything but what they already know so instead of revealing the obvious use the time to bring something to the surface we don't know, use this time to give some depth to your rebel angel, make it something that will set your story apart from others that have already been done something that will grab the audience and make them want to watch the rest of the movie.

I always thought of Hostel as being EuroTrip with gore. I watched it, but didn't think it was remarkable.

brokenfingers · Mar 29, 2007

BottomlessCup said:
*** Contains minor spoilers for the film "Hostel". And I suppose very minor spoilers for "Children of Men", although not anything you can't learn from the back of the box, which is kind of the point of the post. ***

So, I watched the horror film "Hostel" on DVD last night. It was disappointing. There's no blood or actual 'horror-stuff' for the first 50 minutes. During that time, it's basically a numb travelogue about a couple buddies in Europe getting drunk and having sex.

There's a slim subplot about a missing friend, but that's it - and he's just 'missing', not found bloody and mutilated or something. For the first 50 minutes, there's no evidence that you're watching a horror film at all.

It seems to me that the filmmakers were relying entirely on assumptions about what the audience already knows to provide the foreshadowing. Basically, they know you read the box, saw the trailer, etc. You know it's a horror film; you know there's blood coming.

It's kind of the ultimate form of dramatic irony (those idiots didn't even realize they're in a horror flick!).

I also watched "Children of Men", which was NOT disappointing. But after "Hostel", I was still thinking about the dramatic irony thing. The shock of the girl in COM being pregnant was ruined by the fact that I knew from box that she's knocked-up.

So...

As screenwriters, is it fair game to assume that the audience knows the gist of the concept? I would guess that 95% of the time, I know the basic idea of any film I see. Are we allowed to play with that?

As spec writers, it might be riskier, since the initial readers won't have any idea what the script is about, but still. It seems like something to consider.

I have a script about a rebel angel*. Some of my crits have bagged on me for revealing that she's an angel too soon. But, if it were a movie, nobody's would make it into the theater without knowing the movie's about an angel. So, I might as well get the reveal out of the way, right?

Is 'prior knowledge' something we have to take into consideration in our writing?

Well, in answer to your main question - I think it depends on the specific angle of your story. There are so many variables that in some cases it might ruin it but in others it might not.

What genre is this if I may ask? That'll have a lot to do with it too. Horror? Suspense? Action? Thriller? Etc.

I guess it depends on if the reveal is a crucial plot point or surprise or twist. Depends on the POV of the movie. How important is it that people don't know the person's an angel.

Unless there's a twist, I can't really see a problem. Take Constantine for example - it's known from the get-go who he is and that he has certain powers. As a matter of fact - that's a part of the allure of the story or the hook.

I can't imagine how you can sell a movie about a rogue angel without revealing that she's an angel. Unless you're telling a story about a guy who meets a special mysterious person and she (and by default, the audience) wonders who or what that person is.

What's the logline? If there's a mention she's an angel, I'd say that it's pretty much going to be a large part of the marketing/sales approach.

I have a script about a rebel angel*. Some of my crits have bagged on me for revealing that she's an angel too soon. But, if it were a movie, nobody's would make it into the theater without knowing the movie's about an angel. So, I might as well get the reveal out of the way, right?

Let me ask you this: How are you revealing that she's an angel? Is there a way to make it more subtle? I mean you don't have her sprouting wings and harps on cue, right?

Maybe show her doing things mortals can't do without specifically saying she's an angel.

Kinda like the beginning of the Matrix when you see Trinity and the Agent do some unbleivable stuff and for a large portion of the movie you're wondering - "How the hell did they do that? What's going on here?..."

But remember that the majority of trailer material and what will be focused on by people deciding to see the movie is second act stuff. The cool things that will happen in the major part of the film.

But I think if you make it a bit more vague as to what she exactly is, the trailers etc. might be able to portray it more vaguely. Do you know what I mean? I guess it depends on the type of story and how you tell it, in the end.

But also, like I said. If being an angel is a major part of the premise or if the premise has to do with heaven and hell etc., it'll require some crafty writing and editing to keep it under wraps until the right moment.

But I'd say it can be done, depending on the story you're telling.

brokenfingers · Mar 29, 2007

On a sidenote:

Man, I can't believe how a lot of the recent trailers totally show too much as far as a movie's plotline goes. They often take away any tension or suspense the viewer may have concerning a film.

Traditionally trailers would focus on inciting events and second act scenes but nowadays many cull moments from the climax or finale even!

A recent example was the Astronaut Farmer (I think that was the name.)

I was mildly intrigued at first (in a kinda maybe if I'm bored on a Sunday afternoon with no football on kinda way) and then they showed the rocket actually lifting off into space!

Hahahah! Totally deflated any anticipation or curiosity I might have had to see the film. And I've seen many trailers where they show crucial points that basically let you guess the outcome or any twist the writer may have had.

Bastards.

BottomlessCup · Mar 29, 2007

brokenfingers said:
Let me ask you this: How are you revealing that she's an angel? Is there a way to make it more subtle? I mean you don't have her sprouting wings and harps on cue, right?

It happens in the first five pages. She's sort of given up "the angel life" and is trying to live as a human. She has a whole little life built up - friends, job, boyfriend, etc. Someone from her past shows up and forces her to reveal herself - she has to either do some fancy angel-stuff (and ruin her cover) or let a child die. There are wings, after that, when she flees the awestruck crowd which swarms her afterwards.

Honestly, though, I didn't mean for this thread to be about my script. I was just using it as a personal example regarding the topic.

I'm just curious how, as writers, we should handle the idea that the audience already knows about the story before the first line.

NikeeGoddess · Mar 30, 2007

trailers/previews

i agree w/broken - the trailers/previews usually show way too much of a flick. instead of making them suspensful i can actually say, "well, i've seen all the good parts. no need to spend $10 to watch the whole thing."

then occasionally, you get a good one like black snake moon where all you see is people wondering, "why you got a chain on her?" and have absolutely no idea why and you actually wonder.

okay, i'm babbling - back on topic:
as a writer you should not be thinking about previews and trailers. that's a marketing tool and not your job. it'll ruin your story if you do... just as some previews ruin the desire to see a film.

as a writer you should not make assumptions about the audience based on trailers or dvd jackets that have not even been considered yet. it's putting the horse before the cart.

TANGENT ALERT!
it's your own fault if you ruin a movie by reading a bunch of reviews before you go. forget about what other people think and make your own decision. and use it as a learning experience -- whether good or bad and all that stuff in between, you can learn from it all.

zeprosnepsid · Mar 30, 2007

I don't think you should write for expectations. There are two reasons.

a) You are not a regular movie goer. You are a screenwriter and clearly interested in the film business. You know what you're going to see. You would be shocked to learn how many people have no idea what they're going to see. I am always surprised when the whole audience laughs at or is shocked by something that is in the trailer - didn't they see the trailer? They either did and they don't remember it or they didn't see it. My sister and her husband, who have kids, literally go to the movies when they get to go without knowing what they'll see. They see what's ever playing at the time they get there that has some stars in it they've heard of. I would venture that most of the audience, the non-cinefiles, do not have pre-knowledge of most of the movie.

b) Ideally you are writing your movie to last for generations. When someone watches it on DVD because they like the poster art or the actor in it. Or someone flips it on TV in 10 years -- they are very possibly not going to know or remember anything about it.

So I'd write for the blank viewer, not the cinefile. But that's just my opinion...

scripter1 · Mar 30, 2007

I'm working

on a thriller that is based on that concept, that the audience knows what is coming, has a certain expectation.They know it is a serial killer story, so they are looking for someone to pin as the bad guy. While I don't come right out and show them, I let them assume that the first suspcious guy they see is the one. And he is. I let the audience be superior and the characters inferior.The rest of the story takes place with the audience watching the protag move blindly towards her doom. Spoiler alert * she survivesThe point is to keep the audience waiting for that moment where he will strike. She is in peril the whole time and all these forces are tugging the story back and forth. My goal is to have the audience pulling their hair out going "Don't have a coffee with him! He's the killer!" "Husband, don't have a card night with him! He is the killer, stalking your wife!"I don't know if it will work or not, but that is the thought. The trailer and the box will give it away ANYWAY so why not USE it?! Some movies I think are so devoid of story that all there is are the trailer moments.Also, the movie going public is aware of all the possible story lines and we have our expectation of a happy ending or whatever and so we know how it will end. Boy gets the girl, hero saves the day, they win the big game, etc. It becomes a matter of what happens in the middle and how well it's done. As the writer I think it is our job to find the unique twists, and the unique set ups. Within the existing stories we have to find something that hasn't quite been done before. That is what the audience is waiting to see.How the cliches were turned on their heads, is some expected rule is going to be broken well, if the jokes will be funny, if there will be some honest moment, etc, etc.

ScreenWriterNH · Mar 30, 2007

Sometimes you remember the ride more than where you went.

I knew that Private Ryan was the one that lived before I saw the movie, but I still shelled out the $7 (at the time) to see it.

It wasn't the ending that everyone was raving about, it was the movie. "You gotta see it!"

Every word counts: begining, middle and end.

zeprosnepsid · Mar 30, 2007

scripter1 said:
on a thriller that is based on that concept, that the audience knows what is coming, has a certain expectation.

This is genre expectation, I don't think it's the same as trailer/review/back-of-box expectation. Lots of people play off people's genre's expectations and a lot of great movies are made that way...

Joe270 · Mar 30, 2007

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but do we really care what the finished marketed product looks like after we sold it?

Hell, I'll take a sell. Screw it up if you like, just pay me up front.

I do think the trailers give away too much, though. How wimpy is this post?

scripter1 · Mar 31, 2007

I have nothing

to say right now.

Just wanted to see if my spacing problem still existed.

zeprosnepsid · Apr 1, 2007

I've been a trailer editor for the past two years and I find that what we are generally asked to do is not to give away the whole thing, but to make the movie look like something it isn't. So it may look like we're giving away the whole movie, but we're probably not giving away the movie you are seeing. Anyway, a trailer is a marketing tool, like a poster. It's created by the marketing executives at the studio. They're not the sharpest knifes in the drawer. And also, they think you (the audience) are idiots. So what are you going to do.

I respect though that trailers need to have a three act structure like a movie, or else people won't think it's about anything. So I think that's why a lot of stuff gets given away.

zahra · Apr 2, 2007

NikeeGoddess said:
as a writer you should not be thinking about previews and trailers. that's a marketing tool and not your job. it'll ruin your story if you do... just as some previews ruin the desire to see a film.

quote] When I did a TV writers paid scheme (basically you came up with a 3pt script and a soap script and they mentored you through it), I wanted to do a story about a revenge for a rape, but only in the last part do you find out it is the man who has been raped and not his girlfriend. I was interested in themes of male violence, what it means to be a man today, but from the POV of a - English term here - 'ladette': A girl who matches men for drinking, casual sex, playing hard etc. But my script editor said there was no way the 'surprise' could be kept when it was marketed! So he had me do it that you find out at the end of the first part. I did argue and show him how I could sustain the non-knowing, but he insisted that was not the point and that the network would have to publicize the piece's 'most interesting' feature, and that would be the man's rape.
So although as writers we shouldn't have to think about stuff like that, sometimes, it appears, we just do.

icerose · Apr 2, 2007

Quite often the movies are see are different from I expected from watching the trailers. The ones that turn out better were amazing movies, the ones that turned out disappointing were not amazing movies. So write an amazing movie. Simple.

Basically have some twists and turns to lead to the unexpected.

As for trailers. I know, I hate it especially when they have the trailer for the movie at the beginning of it's own freakin movie!

I like the new disney trailers where they make up a scene for the trailer that isn't even in the movie but gives you a good idea of what it's about.

Trailers, the back of the box, foreshadowing, dramatic irony, etc.

BottomlessCup

Getting settled

Rainy Night

INFJ

brokenfingers

Walkin' That Road

brokenfingers

Walkin' That Road

BottomlessCup

Getting settled

NikeeGoddess

zeprosnepsid

scripter1

Article Queen

ScreenWriterNH

zeprosnepsid

Joe270

scripter1

Article Queen

zeprosnepsid

zahra

Was Zahra; lost profile - REBORN!

icerose

Lost in School Work