Westerns?

Check out "Proposition" from Nick Cave. Australian western. I don't think there's anything bad about the genre; if your script is a transparent homage to Leone, that might be uncommercial and unsaleable. I think the greatest impediment to a western is that you can't have blood and guts exploding out of your characters when they get shot, at least not on the scale of Departed or Tarantino, and that hurst when you have a fratboy providing coverage by counting up the number of shooting victims. I think the last western of real qualtiy was made for TV with Duval nd the actor from Sideways; but Duvall had 100% script and production control and the producers could not stop him from turning the movie or series into a vanity exercise. A western should be able to be as nuanced and deep as any other genre, as long as the silly cliches are avoided.

scriptwriter91 said:

I have written a very lengthy western over the last few months...

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Just curious- if it's not already a book and it's not a screenplay, then what did you write?

Seanie, Seanie, Seanie. Quinton is a pale comparison to Sam Peckinpaw. Sam was there first, and QT would not exist today without him.

But Westerns are not just blood and guts, it's a genre with clear-cut plot lines. Sam Peck dulled the lines in the Wild Bunch by having the good guys actually the bad guys and vice versa, jeez, I could go on for a month.

All the same, I love good westerns. Darn it, I can't dredge the name, with K. Costner back in the eightiest, El Dorado or something. That was good. The crap with S. Stone, Leo D., and everyone else shooting each other sucked. It is an underused genre. It can reflect today by using yesterday. It was a simpler, if much harsher time.

Know that L. Lamour is, was, and all ways will be the god of this genre. Know his works. Actually, many are really good, and I don't read westerns. I had to for a TV show I worked on. Read everything LL wrote. IMHO, Hondo is an almost perfect novel. Read it, it'll take you all of three hours, and compare yours to it, structure wise and genre wise. If it fits, you're on your way.

If it isn't really fresh and accurate, I would think this could be difficult to sell.

You're thinking about Silverado (1985) -- some very charismatic performances in that film.

Heck, I loved The Quick and the Dead (1995) -- what's not to like about Sharon Stone in tight leather pants? Sure, there was a comic element running through the film but Silverado had that same element.

We all have different tastes. That's what makes us people.

-Derek

scriptwriter91, if you don't mind me asking, just how long is your "very lengthy" Western script?

I haven't ever seen any "scripts wanted" ads calling for Western scripts. If I did, I'd be replying to 'em!

Despite the fact everyone seems to loves the Western genre, films don't seem to hit the big screen regularly.

Western novels don't exactly top the best seller lists either.

Western and Sci-Fi genres are kissing cousins, as a Plan D you can always try adapting your script into an SF script or novel, or both.

(Just FYI if you haven't already noticed and if you might be interested, AW has a Western discussion forum and a Western critique forum.)

-Derek

jeez, derek, that's a good idea . . . sci-fi western. has there been one? a real hybrid?

Sci Fi Western.???

Outland with Sean Connery quickly comes to mind
and technically Start Trek was billed as a Wagon Train to the stars.

Westworld comes to mind too.

As any Sci-Fi buff will tell ya, Firefly is famously regarded as a Western in Sci-Fi trappings; ditto Star Trek, pitched as "Wagon Train in space"; mention Outland and everyone thinks "High Noon in Outer Space." So many other films and TV series employ familiar Western themes. Space is, as someone once said, the Final Frontier. And a good story is a good story no matter what horse it's ridin', that's my take on things anyway.

Whoops, didn't see ya there, Joe.

-Derek

SW91,

I think you have to pinpoint what it is about your story that would really make it appeal to buyers.
What is it about THIS idea that is really cool, new, different, etc.
What is the hook?
What is your theme? Is there some type of message or point you will be trying to make through your story?

And why is it Western? Why do you HAVE to write a western?
What is driving you?

And from what is being said by the others on the board it sounds like there is much more to being a Western then just a hat, a horse, and the West.

So yeah, better make sure you know the genre.
Lamour is a great read. While I liked Hondo I really enjoyed the Sackett's Series.

Haunted Mesa is a sci-fi/western cross.

Also, read Western scripts. Get a feel for the pacing, length, setups, and styles.

And I would STILL say don't go over 120 pages. That is pretty much the current standard for ANY film.

Sci-Fi-Western? Borked minds think alike. Check out the flash-fic 'Indian Summer' I just posted in SYW-Western.

I'd have to see it,

the way the action is written, before I could tell you whether it's too much or could be shortened.

Um, you wouldn't think, or wouldn't WANT to think that just a few pages over would really be a problem

BUT

it may. The law is, 120. No more.
Still, if something about the script catches the readers eye and you really hook them with the concept and the writing, and everything is working it won't be an issue.

I have heard horror stories of readers that don't read scripts over 120 pages long. While they may not actually toss them they set them aside away from shorter scripts. They may never get to it.

Other readers may give you a chance and start reading it.

My advice, shorten it. There are many ways to do this.

Start fragging. (short, incomplete sentences)
Check for widows and orphans
Edit for extra line spaces.
Try to clear out as many ing's as you can (the most common cause of widows)

Then go on to the serious stuff.
What scenes can you shorten? What actions can be deleted?
Are you repeating yourself? Is your dialog too wordy? Do you have too many characters and can they be combined? Are your descriptions too much? Your writing too wordy? Is there one too many subplots?
Can you speed up the pacing of the story, maybe skipping an event that isn't as vital OR can it happen off the page?

Look for things to cut. And then do it.

OOhhh....western.

If you're planning to make a movie using this genre, and you want it to be a big hit in Hollywood (It could happen), then it will be very difficult.

The western genre is very rare these days mainly due to the fact that film companies are not interested in the genre, but how much the movie makes at the box office.

I would go for the book form if I was in your position, just because it's a safer option.

-Kiester

westerns are like vampires. no one wants them but, every year one usually makes it to the big screen. and people still love them. unfortunately, i'm being literal with "one." unless you include direct to dvd.

...Start Trek was billed as a Wagon Train to the stars.

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this was only because in the mid 60's the top tv shows were all westerns and they were trying to capitalize.

to do a western (or vampire) script today you have to come up with something more original than usual.

example of a sci fi western - have the existence of a character in the future tied to his existence in a past life where what he did a previous life decides the outcome and events of his present life.

Hmm,

so um, would Back to the Future 3 count as a Western Sci-fi?

I couldn't classify Back to the Future as a western sci-fi.

Not knowing a whole lot about scripts, I go for books. Seems to me a lot of authors have written books then been asked to do a script.

I don't agree that westerns are dead meat. I expect them to be around long after I'm gone, and western movies, while getting more scarce nowadays, seem to me to be a a higher quality.

I have to agree with Festus, BTTF3 may have been set in the Old West but a Western theme doesn't propel the story, which is mostly about Marty trying to rescue Doc and repair the DeLorean so they can go home. That's using the setting but not incorporating a recognizable theme.

But here's one. Anyone remember the original Star Trek episode, "Hour of the Gun"? The Enterprise intrudes into alien space and Our Intrepid Heroes find themselves transported to Tombstone, just before the famous Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, where they must face none other than the Earps and Doc Holliday. To me that's a fusion of Western and Sci-Fi themes, you can't unplug one without losing the other. Opinions?

-Derek

Joe Calabrese said:

Westworld comes to mind too.

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Loved it when I was a little one. I'd watch it again just for Yul Brynner.

The screenplay I'm struggling to write is ostensibly a western, too, and I'd be interested in thoughts on the genre, what makes it work and what it suits.


I didn't start off wanting to write a western, I started off with a story, one that's been written of and about thousands of times but which I thought deserved retelling and, in my youthful hubris and arrogance, thought I could retell it in a new way. And so I tried about five times, each time being dead wrong. And left it alone for about four years.

In talking to various filmy people around where I used to live, I began to
get re-excited about the prospect, particularly into making it a film. I was working with an actress on a short film who I thought had the chops to represent the main character, possibly one of the most abused but fascinating in all literary history. I pitched the concept, the fundamentals, the guts of the story, and the people who I talked to got excited about it too. But... where to go. And then my housemate, not short of talent himself, said "why not make it a western?"

It fit. Not in the sense that the story arc was typically western, but inasmuch as the themes and characters just fit in the harsh, dry world of the western. Isolation, moral clarity and ambiguity, life on the frontier, the heat and glare of the desert reflecting the heat brought to bear on the characters' lives, honour, courage in the face of overwhelming odds. It worked.

I had to modify it, to bring the setting forward technologically from 1850 to 1930ish, and to invent an entire alternative history where the USA never existed in the first place and the Mexicans still own Texas. I don't even know whether it's really going to be a "western" when it's done, but it still feels like that's the atmosphere I need to cultivate in the story. The twin themes of heat/exposure and isolation are the ones which keep me thinking I'm on the right track.

I know this is ambiguous and doesn't give people information on the narrative, but that's kind of the point. As I said, I'd really like to know people's general views on the Western, as a genre, as a conglomeration of themes. Might help me work out if I'm actually writing one or not.

(Um, I also just noticed that there's a whole forum for discussing the genre. I guess that's "dumb newbie mistake #1" out of the way then.)

Derek, the hour of the gun was one of my favorites of the old Star Trek! I agree, the themes were interlocked and the combination worked very well.

McDuff, First of all, Welcome! Your project sounds very interesting. Insofar as mistakes on posting, I think you'll find that we are a very tolerant bunch of folks here in the Western Forums, we tend not to worry about the small stuff.

It was a joke guys!

The Back to the Future comment.

This is why I don't do comedy.

McDuff, your thinking on the story rings true to me as well. Sounds great.

scripter1 said:

It was a joke guys!
The Back to the Future comment.
This is why I don't do comedy.

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A joke it may have been, but it was also a good "when is a 'Western' not a Western?" example to debate over. Maybe you're more clever than you thought?









...Nah.

-Derek

Not over yet.

This is for the OP.

Occasionally I see leads for westerns and I don't think they are dead in the water. Like the tides, their demand ebbs and flow. Maybe this is an inicator of things to come.

Larry Levinson Productions - Western
---------------

We are looking for completed feature-length western scripts as writing samples for a writer-to-hire opportunity. We will also consider these submissions for an outright option. This will be for a series of low budget television movies, so submissions should be for a television audience and should reflect an understanding of television formatting and budgets.

WGA and non-WGA writers may submit. Budget should be between $1 and $5 million.

Our credits include 'Desolation Canyon,’ ‘Rough Riders,’ and ‘Johnson County War.’

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Although this lead came from Inktip and you need a password to submit an online query, you can always send them a snail mail query or give them a call.. Good luck.