PublishAmerica a vanity press? Who to publish with?

I have read a topic on this board about PublishAmerica... what is wrong with it? I know nothing about it except that everybody here says that they will accpet absoutly anything. Please let me know why it is consitered a vanity press.
I am looking for someplace to publish with that does not have charge any fees that also provides a cover. That's what I though PublishAmerica was at first, but now I know that they are a vanity press (I, however, know no details).
I am a busy high school student and I have no time for a paid job. I voulenteer, yes, but I'd much rather do that than any paid job (I voulenteer to tain rescued dogs). My main purpose of publishing my ms. (it is a historical fiction book for children in diary form) is because I loved to read when I was in the target age (8-11) of my story. I can still remember not being able to put down a simple 50 to 100 page book at night, almost falling asleep after midnight every night when I finished the short book. Now I am a Dean Knootz fan, but can still remember the books that encouraged me to read and even to start writing for recration. Now, I'd like to write for publication. I've published about ten poems before in anthologies (FamousPoets, AmericanPoets), but I want to get farther than that. Money is an option in a way. I cannot afford to pay any company to publish my manuscript, but I do not care how low royalities are. I do not want to publish it on the internet, but in a tangrable form in a either a paperback or hardcover book -- either of them work.
If you have any ideas, suggestion, or imput, please repily.

Thank you,
Christina Ashbaugh

I'll let someone else cover the basics of PublishAmerica and similar presses.
Here are my questions for you, Christina:
Have you tried a "regular" publisher? If not, why not? What are your goals for publishing (ex. to get it bound and covered, to see my work in book form, to get it out to bookstores and libraries, to make it available for others to read)?

Answer some of those questions, and I think others here will be able to offer you advice.

Stephenie

Stephenie has some good points. Whether or not PA is a good choice for publishing really depends on what you want out of it.

Although not exactly thrilled with PA at the moment, I don't consider them a traditional vanity press. They don't charge the author to publish. They do design a cover, publish your book, and make it available on the on lines stores at no charge to the author.

However, the prices on the books they publish are rather high, and I've heard mention here that this is to offset the cost that they aren't charging the author. In other words, they don't charge you up front, but they make it hard to sell your book due to the price and no return policy. They tempt you into buying your own book in hopes of selling it (although they don't hold a gun to your head) and, I suppose in many cases, they make up for not charging the author up front by actually selling to the author. That author may be able to sell their books or, like me, end up with a box of books on his or her front porch.

I and other PA authors, have had a very difficult time getting bookstores to stock their books. Their website states (on their facts and figures page) that "everyday, authors are invited to do signings...". To me the word "invited" implies that the bookstores are initiating the signings, but from my own experience and most everything I've read on their boards, a PA author needs to practically beg a bookstore owner for a signing. This is but one example of PA "seeming" to appear one thing, but not actually being so.

You are in high school, so there is still a lot of time for you to improve your craft. If you haven't queried and sent manuscripts, do so. If you don't hear back or if you are rejected, this doesn't mean the end of your writing career. It more than likely means you need to improve your writing. Don't take it as an insult. Improve. You can always go with PA or some other non-traditional publisher, but be warned. Bookstore owners, publishers, many reviewers, and most of the literary world don't take PA seriously. It may have it's day in the future, but that day is not today.

Lisa

Christina, to understand why PA may be a bad choice for you, you might try these resources:

At <a href="http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=190.topic&start=1&stop=20" target="_new">Absolute Write</a>

At <a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002692.html#002692" target="_new">Making Light</a>

At <a href="http://scrivenerserror.blogspot.com/2003_07_01_scrivenerserror_archive.html#105957727153045899" target="_new">Scrivener's Error</a>

At <a href="http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/subsidypublishers.html" target="_new">SFWA</a>

...................

Have you considered traditional publishing? In traditional publishing the publisher pays all costs, including paying you a substantial advance.

Christina, PA is a newfangled non-traditional vanity publisher, but they're a vanity publisher just the same. You can find a good explanation of the kind of operation they are by clicking here.

If you don't have a lot of money, there's nothing PA can do for you. They don't do much for people who do have money, either; but in their case it takes a little longer for that to become apparent.

Here's a great truth I picked up off another writing website: "The road to easy publication is paved with your money."

It's wonderful that you love books and writing. You should go on loving them. If you turn out to be a publishable writer, the kind that gets paid for their books by a real publishing house, that'll be great too; but if you do what you love, and do it for its own sake, you'll be a winner no matter what happens.

Jim, about that Making Light thread...

What's the latest on April Fields? Did she find a traditional publisher?

April was still looking for a traditional publisher, last I heard. I'm sure she'll get one.

Christina, PA is pretty bad news for a lot of writers. Check out what the others have told you, and look at Jim's links. Be careful!

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

My main goal is to have my book published and available in book stores, the internet (ie. Amazon or smaller markets), and (if possible) for it to be in a few libraries. I am aming higher than I know I will get, but it is something to try.

After reading that you must purchase the remaining stock/books -- 49 of them -- I am definatly not going to use PublishAmerica. I cannot afford anything extra right now and there is no way I could afford that.

Does anybody know of any other triditional publishers that would consiter publishing my book? I am especially inerested in publishers that specialize in children's books.

Christina Ashbaugh

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

Why do you think that you are aiming higher than you will get?


You are not asking for much.

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

Christina, write your book.

Then get a copy of Writer's Market or Literary Marketplace, and try to sell it.

Start at the very top, the best markets.

Don't bother with publishers whose books you can't find in your local bookstore.

(Go to your local bookstore. Find books similar to yours. Look on the copyright page to see who published them ... you'll find the publisher's address there. Write to that publisher with a self-addressed stamped envelope asking for their guidelines. Follow the guidelines explicitly.)

More basics on writing here: <a href="http://www.sfwa.org/writing/" target="_new">SFWA</a> and <a href="http://fmwriters.com/" target="_new">Forward Motion</a>.

For your specific interests: <a href="http://www.scbwi.org/" target="_new">Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators</a>

Remember: Money Flows Toward the Author. Any time an agent or a publisher asks you to write them a check, you're most likely in the presence of a scammer.

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

yah!

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

Christina,

"After reading that you must purchase the remaining stock/books -- 49 of them -- I am definatly not going to use PublishAmerica. I cannot afford anything extra right now and there is no way I could afford that."

Just be aware that although this practice of making authors buy stock that is not there is unethical, this apparently happens when an author wants to get out of their contract. It's not something an author who is thrilled with PA has to do.

If you just want to publish with PA and don't care if your book sells, it won't cost you anything. But I'm not sure why you would want to start at the bottom like that, unless writing for you is more of a hobby than a career.

Lisa

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

If all you want is two copies of your own book (at a cost of $14.50 each -- you have to pay for your own copyright registration), PA is probably the way to go.

Sales beyond that are whatever you can hassle your family and friends into buying.

The primary market for PA books is the authors themselves. PA offers a 30% discount on bulk sales -- on books whose cover prices they've jacked up 30%. In other words, the authors are put under heavy pressure to buy their own books at full market price. That's a vanity press.

Re: PublishAmeria a vanity press? Who to publish with?

Before you look up books in a bookstore that are like yours, I think you should look at the books in your home that are like yours. The ones you really love.

Then check them out in the books James recommended, and choose the best and best-paying ones.

Guys and Gals of Absolute-Write

This is wonderful information and great help. I know I said it before but:


A resounding thank you

Once again I remain
Sincerely;

RT

Darbyj, given that (1.) PA's using POD technology, which means they should never have more than a few copies of "remaining stock" in the first place, and (2.) by report, their "remaining stock" almost always turns out to be 49 copies, which is simply impossible, I wouldn't hesitate to call them unethical.

What kind of impossible is that? It's impossible that it should so frequently be 49 copies. It's impossible that a POD publisher should have that many printed-and-bound copies of a title sitting around gathering dust. And it's incredible that a company that intermittently has trouble filling its authors' orders for a half-dozen or a dozen copies should so consistently turn out to have used hard-to-get press time at Lightning to randomly print up lots of copies of some book in advance of any orders for it coming in.

You know what real publishing companies do when they revert a book? They reserve the right to finish selling off howevermany copies they already have printed and sitting in the warehouse. That's all. The author doesn't have to buy anything. They give the rights back for free. And these are companies that have actually put significant money into making the book -- not just paying the author's advance, but doing the editing, design, production, promotion, conventional printing, and warehousing.

By comparison, PA's investment in the book is as close to zero as they can possibly make it, and their default printing technology only produces a handful of copies at a time. Nevertheless, they insist that the departing author buy 49 copies.

It's just a shakedown. They're just scum.

. . .

I'll bet I know why it's 49 copies. You understand POD tech, right? You can run off a few copies as needed, but the copies are all expensive, and no matter how many you print, they never get any cheaper. Another way to make books, the way the conventional publishing houses do it, is to go to big printing houses that use big offset web presses. There's a much higher minimum number of copies, but the cost per copy is much lower. You with me so far? Okay, there's a third method that falls between those two: short-run books. It's what gets used to make advance bound galleys, if you've ever seen those. If you're running off three or four copies it costs as much or more per copy than POD, but its per-copy cost goes down as quantities go up.

Most outfits that do short-run books -- here's a typical example -- will handle runs of 10 - 1,000 copies, but their good price breaks start kicking in around 25 - 50 copies, at which point they're significantly cheaper than POD.

Let me reiterate a point I made earlier: PA intermittently has trouble filling their authors' modest book orders in any reasonable amount of time. If the copies the authors are forced to buy come in lots of 49, they're not being printed by Lightning (or they are, but Lightning's using different technology than it uses for its POD books). I'll bet you anything that what PA is doing, when it becomes clear that one of their authors is determined to break with them, is go to a short-run printer and have fifty copies made up. I expect they're keeping one copy for their records.

The rest of the copies they require the author to buy, at a price that's profitable for them when the book's printed by Lightning, which means that at short-run per-unit rates it's going to be very profitable indeed. There's nothing legit about it. It's just one last parting gouge.

Another post full of the down-and-dirty mechanics of publishing that's killed the conversation in which I posted it.

nah, this thread was started by someone who didn't join in on the existing (large) thread on PA. most are on that one. this is a newbie and didn't read the the post-it at the top of the bewares.

good info. i enjoyed it.

Thank you. I feel less guilty now.

Hapisofi,

You are good!

Fascinating stuff you posted on short-run versus lightening press/POD.

All this information, (including the technical mumbo-jumbo) people share on the boards will make for better informed writers. Knowledge is power.

Good job.

Hey Dave! You're famous (again)!

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/9459.htm" target="_new">www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/9459.htm</a>

It seems like that thread has already been pulled.

Awful, ain't it?

I happened to catch sight of that before it disappeared while looking for something else. I went on before thinking that a copy might be useful knowing that PA's penchant for removing things has no real rhyme or reason. Sure enough, it was gone already in that space of a few seconds. However, I looked in the Internet cache on my computer and there it was, so I copied that. By the way, why did I write that institution? Simple. Mr. Thompson stated in his original posting earlier about getting that position and how he could tell others about how to be published with PA. I felt the institution deserved to know more about their instructor's publisher. Do I feel any remorse? Not in the least, considering that I might have saved several writers from an uninformed decision.

Here is what PA removed shortly after I viewed it. I do not know if any other posts were added to it before they removed it.

Jthompson



3/22/2004
10:49:06
Subject: Angry in Georgia?


Message:
I have an opportunity to teach a class at Emory University in Atanta in May. I wanted everybody to read this negative email that was sent to Emory University from individual attacking Publish America!

Mr. Thompson -

I have received the following email and I would like to know your response.

I just heard that you have hired an individual to teach a course in Creative Writing/Publishing. Although I do not know the qualifications for that individual, I do know that your school could be placing itself into the middle of a very nasty controversy in that the individual, Mr. Julius Thompson, has a book published by PublishAmerica. The controversy that your school might be embroiled within, should Mr. Thompson recommend his publisher to class participants, consists of a publisher who does not honor all their contracts, treads in the gray area when it comes to their claims, and urges its authors to purchase their books since it cannot get its books into bookstores. At most, out of over 4,000 authors it has published, only one or two books have actually managed to get into any bookstores as a result of the publisher's marketing. This is also a publisher that deliberately conducts smear campaigns against those who criticize its actions and bans its own authors from its own forum should they speak out. There are numerous other allegations that will come to light if your department does an Internet search on PublishAmerica.

Cordially,
Dave Kuzminski, Editor
Preditors & Editors (tm)

When I agreed to run the course you proposed, I was, and am still expecting that your class will be discussing the process for preparing works for publication in general terms rather than promoting any specific route to publication. I also expect that you would not be making guarantee to any students.

I would like to hear your comments on these matters.

Sincerely
Byrd Perkerson
Assistant Director




The Herndons

3/22/2004
10:57:45


RE: Angry in Georgia?


Message:
That is so infuriating!! Hopefully PA sees this and addresses Mr. Kuzminski accordingly.

Jthompson: perhaps you can reseach the interference that Mr. Kuzminki has created for you. Your appointment to teach has nothing to do with PA, and vice versa. It is none of Kuzminski's business where you work, and it is not an employer's business to know where you were published.

There's a lot of stomping going on here on our side for you! Some people give a whole new meaning to the term 'bashing.'

Best of luck with your teaching gig...and to hell with the Kuzminki's of the world!

S. Bond Herndon
Heather Hyde-Herndon
"Into the Blue"


DennisB

3/22/2004
11:29:39


RE: Angry in Georgia?


Message:
I wonder if Mr. Kuzminski is trying his best to be a consumer advocate in the ilk of Ralph Nader. Either he is or he has a lot of pent up hatred for PA and its many satisfied authors for some reason of his own design and manufacture. He should really watch his blood pressure; that kind of emotional and stress levels are sure tickets to heart problems. I would think that kind of activism could be used in a more constructive and positive manner.

Mr. Thompson, I know you must be feeling personally attacked because that is what this butt-in-ski has done. How dare he elevate himself to such a pontifical state as to insert himself into your employee/employer agreements unsolicited!

Dennis
A Meeting in the Air
www.linden-beaudry.ws

Duh!

It just occurred to me why PA removed that post. It mentions all their faults. If they leave it there, they have to answer those should any of their authors ask and we know they don't want their authors bringing up embarrassing questions they can't answer without lying.

Of course, by removing it, they proved that my allegations are true, not that I and many others didn't already know that.