Evil Protagonist vs. Good Antagonist

I don't agree that the protagonist is always good and the antagonist always bad. They can both be human beings (neither all good nor all bad) with directly opposing objectives.

For example, Henry wants to win the tournament and therefore win the hand of the princess, so does Derek. They can't both win, so Henry is Derek's antagonist (and Derek is Henry's antagonist).

It depends which character you want the reader to root for.

Basically the protagonist is the guy you want the reader to want to win, the antagonist is they guy you want the reader to want to lose. I think that's where the confusion over good guy and bad guy comes from.

All you need to worry about in the query letter is telling your agent which character your story is following and who is stopping them achiving whatever they need to achieve. Antagonist and protagonists are just terms to describe these people, you don't need to specify antagonist and protagonist in the query letter.

Could you not describe the main character as an anti-hero?

I would introduce the "antagonist" in the traditional protagonist's spot. The first example that comes to mind is the movie "Heat" in which Robert Deniro plays the part of the skilled thief and Pachino plays the part of the cop trying to stop him. Deniro's role is clearly the driving force and, were I to draft a query letter, I'd have to say something to the effect of "Lifelong theif Deniro has one more job to pull, then he can retire for life on a sunny beach with his new girlfriend, but he's never had anyone like Pachino on his tail before. When he's betrayed, can he walk away with the money, or will a lifetime of settling scores compell him to risk it all?" where he is the defacto protagonist (anti-hero).

vrabinec said:

I would introduce the "antagonist" in the traditional protagonist's spot. The first example that comes to mind is the movie "Heat"

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I was thinking "The Usual Suspects," but the same thing applies. The narrator/protagonist is a two-bit thief and liar with lots of secrets. The antagonist is the federal agent trying to get him to spill.

It's all perspective.

Protagonist is the main character/hero/anti-hero of your story. The antagonist is someone or something against the protagonist.

That's all. There's no rule saying the protagonist must be good and the antagonist must be evil.

In "The Departed," there are two protagonists -- Matt Damon and Leo DiCaprio. Let's just focus on Matt Damon's character (because DiCaprio has another story arc). He's the bad guy. But he is the protagonist. And the antagonists are the agents who are trying to find him and arrest him.

lfraser said:

Could you not describe the main character as an anti-hero?

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That's what I'd do. Trying to explain "my antagonist is actually a good guy and my protagonist is the bad guy" in a query letter would be annoying to write, and probably confusing to read. Everyone has a good mental image for "anti-hero" though.

(and it's probably Clint Eastwood)

What Maestro said.

Really, the distinction between protag and antag has nothing to do with good and bad (and thinking of them as good and bad is what makes so many authors crazy when they're trying to get a handle on protagonists and antagonists). They're sort of opposite sides of the coin, and if you asked the antagonist, he'd tell you that he was the protagonist of the story, and the protagonist was the antagonist.

Also, in a query, you don't need to use the terms protagonist and antagonist. Just say your much wittier version of "this story is about person A, and his struggle with person B that comes to a critical juncture when ....."

Also, keep in mind that usually the protag and antag are both main characters in any book, not necessarily in terms of the time the reader spends with each of them, but in terms of their importance to the story. If the antagonist is removed from the story, there's no story, b/c there's no struggle. So, to say that the antagonist is a secondary character is a little misleading; the antagonist is absolutely, positively critical to the story.

BTW, Jacqueline Carey did a really wonderful two-book story, Banewreaker and Godslayer, which was sort of a reverse fantasy, where it's told from the point of view of the characters who were on the "evil" side of a prediction. I forget what the marketing tagline was, but it had to do with "What if everyone else thinks you're evil?" and it really was a classic presentation of how a really skillfully developed character -- protagonist OR antagonist -- thinks, in his own mind and with every fiber of his being, that he is the good guy in the story.

JD

Doestovsky's "Crime and Punishment" comes to mind; where the protagonist is also the murderer. Having comitted the murder he is beset with the problem of living with it.
Many of the definitions given above are pretty good. I particularly like the one about De Niro and Pacino. I am biased on that anyway . Both are my all time favorite actors.

Cath said:

I don't agree that the protagonist is always good and the antagonist always bad. They can both be human beings (neither all good nor all bad) with directly opposing objectives.

It depends which character you want the reader to root for.

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Yup, that's the way I think of it. Protagonist is the character througn whom the reader experiences the story. And doing a flip to make the protatgonist the bad guy can make things very interesting. I'm not sure you'd even need to describe the MC in such general terms in a query. I would think that your plot description would probably show that the MC is the "bad guy" without needing to describe it. Good luck with it!

American Psycho.

The Talented Mr. Ripley.

Hannibal Lecter.

maestrowork said:

American Psycho.

The Talented Mr. Ripley.

Hannibal Lecter.

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Lecter wasn't really the protagonist, though: Starling was.

As a multifaceted antagonist, the character of Lecter is unforgettable: like an evil Sherlock Holmes.

I don't know how other readers will respond to your character, but I don't care for anti-heroes or bad-guy protags. I don't read stories or books that feature 'em.

Conflicted characters, that's another story. Everyone has flaws and weaknesses---it just adds to the character's depth.

Sailor Kenshin said:

Lecter wasn't really the protagonist, though: Starling was.

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In "Silence of the Lambs," sure. But there are four books now that feature Lecter. He's certainly the protag in "Hannibal Rising."

Sailor Kenshin said:

I don't know how other readers will respond to your character, but I don't care for anti-heroes or bad-guy protags. I don't read stories or books that feature 'em.

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When I first started writing my latest books, I kept trying to rein in my MC, because I was afraid most people would feel this way. I finally decided to let her run free*, and she suddenly grew into a real character in my mind. There's no doubt that my MC is a bad guy. I've probably killed more people in the excerpts I've submitted in Share Your Work than most people kill in their entire writing career. A lot of people will hate my books for this reason alone (and my mother will no doubt wonder how in the world she managed to raise such a foul-mouthed daughter), and that's fine. There's also no doubt that she's the heroine of the story. Fortunately, my agent loves my main character as much as I do, so I have hopes that I'll have a few readers some day.


*Don't ask me why I suddenly felt the urge to write in horse metaphors. I haven't a clue.

Every character is the main character from his or her point of view. Protagonist and Antagonist are simply the characters that the reader is supposed to root for or against. That's all. If you have a bad guy protagonist, well, he has to have reasons that are somewhat sympathetic for the reader. In Boondock Saints (great movie), for example, the protagonists wanted to kill 'bad guys', even though doing so could easily been seen as bad in and of itself. From their POV what they were doing was entirely justified, in fact sanctioned by God. The antagonist, the Federal Agent tracking them, is himself a good guy who is trying to stop them before they kill again. Everything they do is understandable from their point of view.

In the query, you could just introduce them by name and get on with your brief summary of the story. Why worry about labels? If the summary is done right, the protagonist (whether good or bad) will be obvious.

in my novel, John (the Good Guy) is afflicted with a mysterious ailement which he believes has been caused by Lucy (the Bad Guy) and together with his friend Michael (The Plucky Sidekick Who Is a Coward With A Heart of Gold) and their friend Rachael (The Romantic Interest Who Is Torn Between The Bad Guy, The Plucky Sidekick, and Igor) must battle their way through evil minions (Evil Minions) to get to the antidote.

There we go, a labled query letter.

PeeDee: Igor?

Personally, I find "good" protagonists boring. Like, for instance, Goku. Give me Vegeta any day...

But that's just me. Lots of people like Goku too.

In my writing I try to make all my characters gray. Generally though, some come out as "evil" and some come out as "good". But I see no problem having an "evil" protagonist.

JBI said:

In my writing I try to make all my characters gray. Generally though, some come out as "evil" and some come out as "good". But I see no problem having an "evil" protagonist.

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The problem might arise if readers don't care about an evil protagonist.