To Be (religious) Or Not To Be

JMJCarla · Jan 23, 2007

Ok, Ok I hate titling threads and articles.

Although I am a professional writer of sorts, (research, articles, op-ed pieces, editing etc.) this is my first novel.
What I'm wondering (worrying- hmm) about is this.
My book has a myriad of characters, and is slightly apocolyptic with a few biblical twists. It unfolds slowly and includes paranormal activity, struggles between good and evil, and hopefully a mystery, which will be understood by the novel's end. (Sooner by the more astute reader.)
It is a bit ecumenical in that there are diverse religious backgrounds for several of the main players (Judeo-Christian.) My fear is that a mainstream publisher may reject it out of hand as religious, when really I see the apocolyptic flavor as a means to the end of a good tale.
Can such books still make it to mainstream publishing?

veinglory · Jan 23, 2007

I think that in there post-Da Vinci code days it is actually an advantage so long is it isn't a veiled attempt to preach to the reader.

MidnightMuse · Jan 23, 2007

Struggles against good and evil.

Diverse religious backgrounds for several main players.

Slightly apocolyptic.

Paranormal activity.

Kinda sounds like an average day in 2007, doesn't it? I'm not trying to be glib, I'm just saying that from what you've stated here, it sounds like a regular ol' story - not a strictly religious one.

Unless, as Veinglory stated, you are trying to preach to the reader. Give an agent the chance to accept or reject it - don't try to second guess them before they even read your query.

It sounds like a potentially interesting tale to me

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

In pre-Da Vinci code days, religion was still a fine and useful topic for writing. If you preach -- about religion, politics, race, war, anything -- then you've failed miserably.

But it's good in the story. I can just glance at the books on my shelf and see all manner of good books with religion in 'em.

A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Litany of the Long Sun (or anything by Gene Wolfe), Lords of Light by Roger Zelazny, Babylon 5 (the TV series), loads of Stephen King books...

Da Vinci code gave people a stupid idea about what religion can be used for in novels.

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 23, 2007

JMJCarla said:
Ok, Ok I hate titling threads and articles.

Although I am a professional writer of sorts, (research, articles, op-ed pieces, editing etc.) this is my first novel.
What I'm wondering (worrying- hmm) about is this.
My book has a myriad of characters, and is slightly apocolyptic with a few biblical twists. It unfolds slowly and includes paranormal activity, struggles between good and evil, and hopefully a mystery, which will be understood by the novel's end. (Sooner by the more astute reader.)
It is a bit ecumenical in that there are diverse religious backgrounds for several of the main players (Judeo-Christian.) My fear is that a mainstream publisher may reject it out of hand as religious, when really I see the apocolyptic flavor as a means to the end of a good tale.
Can such books still make it to mainstream publishing?

I don't see why you couldn't put religious elements into the story. It's when works start getting preachy that a lot of people have bad things to say about it.

I think what you're talking about should be fine.

BTW, :welcome:

to the forums. It's good to meet you.

janetbellinger · Jan 23, 2007

Yeah, I guess people have become so highly evolved they don't need to be preached at anymore. Forgive me for sounding bitter, but as an oldster of 56, I long for the good old days when authors were also supposed to teach through their writings

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 23, 2007

janetbellinger said:
Yeah, I guess people have become so highly evolved they don't need to be preached at anymore. Forgive me for sounding bitter, but as an oldster of 56, I long for the good old days when authors were also supposed to teach through their writings

I know what you're saying, Janet, but I think there's a difference between teaching in your writing, and preaching in your writing. Basically, to teach something through a novel, it doesn't come across like a sermon. Also, in my own book I'm now re-writing, there was a lot of preachiness that I'm trying to remove, because some reviewers of the book when PA had it felt 'disconcerted' (their words, not mine) by all the overtly Christian aspects of the book.

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching in a novel; it's when people beat the reader over the head with "You must believe this or else" that it would seem the majority of people have a problem with the work.

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

janetbellinger said:
Yeah, I guess people have become so highly evolved they don't need to be preached at anymore. Forgive me for sounding bitter, but as an oldster of 56, I long for the good old days when authors were also supposed to teach through their writings

By all means, teach through your writing. But you should be teaching me so that I appreciate what I've come away with knowing. I shouldn't feel like I'm sitting there with a finger shaking in my face going "You'd better learn!"

It's the difference between Happy Feet (blatant preaching) and Finding Nemo (really pretty darn subtle).

MidnightMuse · Jan 23, 2007

I had a big long thing ready to type, but I'll just say:

I agree here with Ian and PeeDee - I can do that and use fewer words

IrishScribbler · Jan 23, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
I had a big long thing ready to type, but I'll just say:

I agree here with Ian and PeeDee - I can do that and use fewer words

Good job of eschewing surplusage! <wink>

veinglory · Jan 23, 2007

Indeed. I read books that make statements about faith and it's joys and travails*--but not those that try and convert me. It's just show versus tell at the meta-level.

*(I am even quite addicted to the subgenre of Jesuit missionary sci fi, a case of conscience, the sparrow etc)

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

veinglory said:
*(I am even quite addicted to the subgenre of Jesuit missionary sci fi, a case of conscience, the sparrow etc)

I am too. Hopelessly addicted to it.

JMJCarla · Jan 23, 2007

How cool - Did I blink? Like I just started this thread and look at all the great responses! (Ditto Janet- its tempting but I know my own kids don't listen when I preach - why should the literary world.)
Thanks all and thanks for the "Welcome."
I can learn alot about what publishers might be thinking just listening to you all.
Not really any preaching going on in my novel thus far. There will be an explanation from some guru type character who happens to be a priest who happens to be able to explain at least part of the mystery that is going on but that's about it. Other characters, Methodist, Jewish, even non-religious will also provide peices to the puzzle.
Hey while I have everyone's attention, I did a word count on Part I of III, which is complete. So far I have 27,000 words. Is this on target or too much for today's fast food readers?

jodiodi · Jan 23, 2007

Most of my novels have some sort of spirituality in them as part of the mythology of my worlds. Even the contemporary one I'm trying to write will have a touch of it. I tend to write a lot about redemption for past misdeeds in some of my related stories and the people of my fantasy world are quite spiritual (I mean, they die and come back stronger and wiser over and over and their biggest enemy is a rebellious demigod so spirituality overshadows the whole plot.).

Like others have said, if it's integral to the characters and the story, it's fine; if the story is simply a vehicle for putting forth a specific religious ideology and your mission is to convert, then, not so much.

veinglory · Jan 23, 2007

It sounds about right to me. I think novels are running around 100,000 words these days?

greglondon · Jan 23, 2007

I like "Constantine"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360486/

Gillhoughly · Jan 23, 2007

Write whatever is appropriate to each character and just tell your story.

I have stopped reading fictions where it was clear the author was on a soapbox trying to sell an agenda.

I have been unable to put down some books where religion was absolutely vital to the characters and story, but never once preached at me.

And I hated DaVinci Code because the writing was so bloody awful. Thankfully I am not out of pocket for its purchase price.

I weep, WEEP for the dead trees.

benbradley · Jan 23, 2007

Crichton's "State of Fear" was criticized for being "preachy" on the topic of the book, though I must admit I actually enjoyed reading it, perhaps because I hadn't seen his viewpoint anywhere else in popular media. I might say more, but that might get this thread moved...

JMJCarla · Jan 23, 2007

jodiodi said:
Like others have said, if it's integral to the characters and the story, it's fine;

Yup.
Just telling what makes each person tick.

I'm glad I don't have a deadline. Like right now I'm picking youse guys brains when I was in the middle of reading museum maps to figure out the logistics of a scene. sigh. I love the writing - the research metsa metsa.

Know it will take a trip to this city to walk it all, but this scene is itching to be written and others are in limbo til its settled.
Isn't writing fun?

farfromfearless · Jan 23, 2007

Though I can't recall the titles off the top of my head, I do recall seeing books of a similar flavour on the Sci-Fi/Fantasy shelves at my local Chapters. PeeDee mentioned to me last night that "A Canticle For Leibowitz" has a lot of religious overtones but falls into the Sci-Fi category.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - write what you want, I'm sure there will be a publisher out there that will be interested if its done well.

JMJCarla · Jan 23, 2007

Thanks farfrom. I'll keep sci-fi in mind. Think when I peddle it I'll start where I want to be and work my way down the rejection list til I maybe get a bite.
Well I'm def. getting back to it now. No more procrastination tonight. Sides the sketti is cooked and I'm peckish.
Thanks to all for help.

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

I don't know what religion "sketti" is, but go ahead and put it into your book. Sounds saucy!

Gillhoughly · Jan 23, 2007

PeeDee said:
I don't know what religion "sketti" is, but go ahead and put it into your book. Sounds saucy!

Perhaps.... http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

May we all be touched by His Noodly Appendage!

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

Does the sketti monster rise up from sunken Relyeh? To devour the earth?

How very eldrich of him.

To Be (religious) Or Not To Be

JMJCarla

veinglory

volitare nequeo

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Sean D. Schaffer

janetbellinger

Sean D. Schaffer

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

IrishScribbler

veinglory

volitare nequeo

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

JMJCarla

jodiodi

Reflections of Reality

veinglory

volitare nequeo

greglondon

Planet Wookie techno geek

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

JMJCarla

farfromfearless

JMJCarla

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?