Publishing Question

amyfushigiyugi · Nov 20, 2006

Hi,

I was wondering about something. If I publish a book through Author House then I get to keep all my rights. 100%. Now the question I have is … is this worth doing?

Publish a book through author house.
Buy a lot of my books.
Send the books out to real publishing companies to see if I can get a real contract on them.

Reason I ask is because the cost of ink is high when printing out the whole book and sending it to pubs. It would cost less and look a whole lot neater if I just sent out the books. Right?

Plus my closest fans would not have to wait for a real publisher to take over the books.

If anyone has done this please let me know. If someone knows this is a ‘No No’ then also please let me know.

Thank you,
Amy

CrankItTo11 · Nov 20, 2006

Agents and publishers like loose pages in a standard format - I don't think they'd want to recieve a bound book. Plus, what if they request (as they often do) a partial?

Just my 2 cents...

JennaGlatzer · Nov 20, 2006

Crank is right. And you're also using up your first publication rights. Even though it's *possible* for a publisher to pick up the rights to a self-published book, it's not what they prefer. And they'll want to see your sales numbers-- so if you publish through a vanity press and sell 100 copies, it'll be a strike against you, because it'll look like there's not much of an audience for your book.

Definitely stick to sending out the manuscript in manuscript format to real publishers.

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

Please don't do this thing. Please oh please. I realize how expensive ink can be (boy oh boy do I realize....) but going with AuthorHouse means you'll be running the rest of this marathon with a bear trap on your leg.

Plus, they'll send you some damn annoying letters every three days. Urk.

veinglory · Nov 20, 2006

Rather than run every copy of your book off a laser printer making one copy and photocopy it. That should be a lot cheaper than a perfect bound copy (and shipping to you).

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

veinglory said:
Rather than run every copy of your book off a laser printer making one copy and photocopy it. That should be a lot cheaper than a perfect bound copy (and shipping to you).

.....what a good idea. Why didn't that occur to me? It is a lot cheaper.

Crap, now I've learned something.

jchines · Nov 20, 2006

If you do this, your book will be published. Even if a publisher is willing to pick up a previously published book, there's a good chance you'll get a smaller advance.

Honestly, I can't imagine this would help your chances, and I think there's a very good possibility it would hurt you.

veinglory · Nov 20, 2006

Just send them what they ask for. Anything else suggests you are not paying attention and respecting their wishes.

NeuroFizz · Nov 20, 2006

If the submission instructions say to submit 2 chapters, or if an agent requests 2 chapters following submission of a query, sending the entire manuscript is a huge mistake on your part. Follow submission instructions to the letter, whether or not it drives you crazy. Doing otherwise may be a quick trip to the rejection pile.

veinglory · Nov 20, 2006

amyfushigiyugi said:
But if I am printing it from home then even if its a copy... wouldnt it take the same amount of ink? You lost me somewhere and I am new at this so I know it is easy to lose me. ^_^
Hugs
Amy

Photocopying uses a photocopy machine not a laser printer. At any good copy shop this will cost less than using your inkjet. Most people, in my experience, just sneak in and do it at work (or someone elses work). Otherwise, invest in a decent printer that uses cheap toner not an inkjet cartridge. It will pay for itself within about 2 copies of a full manuscript.

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

amyfushigiyugi said:
But if I am printing it from home then even if its a copy... wouldnt it take the same amount of ink? You lost me somewhere and I am new at this so I know it is easy to lose me. ^_^
Hugs
Amy

Don't copy them at home. Go to Kinko's, or OfficeDepot, or something. There's always somewhere with a copier.

Honestly, anything is better than going with AuthorHouse or a similar publisher. You're giving away waaaaay too much just to get your pages stuck together with some glue. Promise.

Toothpaste · Nov 20, 2006

self-published books, whether they deserve the stigma or not, are looked down on by agents and editors. They are seen as vanity projects by people who think they are too good for editors. Now before people start showing me examples of the opposite, I do know that this isn't always the case, and that there are some perfectly good reasons to self-publish, especially in the poetry world. I am just generalising here. However I would still highly recommend that you don't go this route. Just follow the directions of the agent/publisher you are sending stuff to. Trust us, they wouldn't ask for things a certain way if they didn't want them that way. Being professional is the best trick in the book.

Gillhoughly · Nov 20, 2006

Is this worth doing? Publish a book through author house.

Absolutely NOT.

This is from http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/peba.htm

AuthorHouse (formerly 1st Books): Not recommended. A vanity publisher.
5/17/06 - If you don't know by now, AuthorHouse lost a libel suit in court. It seems that the courts and jury decided that a publisher couldn't disavow itself of what it published. In other words, AuthorHouse should have vetted what it accepted before publishing. Now they owe several hundred thousand dollars and may have to pay even more in punitive damages.

Brace for incoming, darlin' -- NO ONE here is going to recommend AuthorHouse.

Just yesterday I was on the phone with a bookstore owner who delcared it was now company policy to NOT stock books from any AuthorHouse or PublishAmerica writer.

If you're in too much of a hurry to get "published" and think having a bound copy counts as a pro credit, think again. It ain't happening.

If you have a small circle of fans (maybe they like what you posted on the Net, but the big kids in the real pub. houses are of a different mind) and want to sell a limited number of copies, then lulu.dom is a better choice. There will be a link somewhere on this site. That still does not count as a real publishing credit with the print editors.

What does count is to SELL something. For two years I sold only 5 small pieces to a small magazine--but I got paid for it. When the publishing house looking at my first novel asked if I'd sold anything I could say, "Yes. ~~~~~ Magazine bought everything I ever sent them." They took that seriously. They also bought my book! (They've bought nearly 20 of them now...)

Please read threads on AuthorHouse and take it to heart.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1107286

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924&highlight=AuthorHouse will give you comments from writers who had a less than happy experience with A.H.

AuthorHouse is BAD NEWS. We're only trying to keep you from wandering off a cliff into a bottomless pit.

Buy a lot of my books.

Who buys? You? To make it look like you're a big seller? You'd have to buy thousands of copies--and it still won't get you the kind of notice you'd want from the big publishers. You can go bankrupt trying to build up false sales. Trust me, you are not the first to think of that ploy. It doesn't work.

Send the books out to real publishing companies to see if I can get a real contract on them.

Sending an AuthorHouse style bound book to a real pub house will get you rejected. It will get you rejected so fast that the bound copy flying past will suck the air right from your lungs.

FOLLOW SUBMISSION GUIDELINES. PERIOD.

A bound book tells them you are not serious about being a writer. They have guidelines for a reason; pay attention to them.

There are no short cuts in this business. You finish a book, shop it around, and while that's going on write the next one. Rinse, repeat.

If you're so worried about keeping your rights then go to the library's 808 section and find a book on publishing contracts. With most houses your rights revert to you after a certain set time anyway. (And newsflash--no one is going to steal your idea. That only happens after you hit the best seller list and then it won't matter.)

Good luck!

PS, Spellcheck and get Strunk & White's Elements of Style. Get it NOW. Off to the bookstore with you. Scoot!

Bufty · Nov 20, 2006

Aah, don't we all, Amy. :Hug2:

But follow the guidelines and remember, Amy, if your first Two or Three or whatever chapters as good as they should and can be, chances are an Agent will ask for the rest. And these have also to be as good as they can be. Time spent on polishing and editing isn't time wasted.

I also find it expensive, my dear, especially if a whole manuscript is despatched, and postage isn't cheap on this side of the pond. I have an inkjet, but using a local shop for laser printing has proved faster and cheaper and gives a sharper product.

Must get my own laser printer, but... :Hug2:

Good luck.

amyfushigiyugi said:
I really do want them to see all 500 pages...

Amy

Tracy · Nov 20, 2006

I know ink is expensive, but it's not that expensive. I've often thought that we writers are lucky in one sense because it costs so little in terms of money to go after our dreams. (The cost in time and heart-ache is another issue entirely!). Look at how much it costs business-people and inventors to go after their dreams - gulp!

When you've put your heart and soul and all that time into a novel, then don't begrudge the cost of giving it every chance. There are good tactical reasons to only send out about 5 copies of the mss at a time, but I suggest you don't do that just to save money.

To be honest, I always found it cheaper to tell prospective agents to just bin the mss rather than pay for an SAE. Especially since, on the few which have come back, they're that little bit too crumpled to be sent out again. so I have to print a new one anyway.

I wasn't rolling in it by any stretch, I'm not saying that the cost of the ink didn't hurt. But it was still very reasonable for pursuing a dream. And even on monetary terms - compared with a new dress, or a meal out, it was comparable - and I knew which was more valuable to me. (I'm based in Ireland, where things tend to be more expensive than the US, so I'm assuming ink isn't madly more expensive there than here?)

So I invite you to rethink it all and don't begrudge the cost of doing it properly - it's so worth it.

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

Which, if it means you're going the proper routes about this and not AuthorHouse, means I can sit back and breathe a deep sigh of relief. It always frightens me when someone even glances toward some of the more disreputeable POD's.

Other people do Crisis Hotlines. We do POD hotlines. Also, we love you.

CaroGirl · Nov 20, 2006

Let me respond to the "art" reference. Please keep in mind that publishers, for reasons of their very own, have their own artists on staff and on contract. In my experience, they DO NOT want you to send your own artwork with your project, not even for picture books. If you aren't Maurice Sendak, don't send art with your submission. I hope someone better informed about this than I am responds with either a yay, or nay on this subject.

Mike Coombes · Nov 20, 2006

PeeDee said:
Please don't do this thing. Please oh please. I realize how expensive ink can be (boy oh boy do I realize....) but going with AuthorHouse means you'll be running the rest of this marathon with a bear trap on your leg.

Plus, they'll send you some damn annoying letters every three days. Urk.

Seconded - although I believe that should read a bear trap on EACH leg. Underwater. With crocodiles nibbling your personal areas.

Elektra · Nov 20, 2006

Hie thee hence to the Snarkives:

misssnark.blogspot.com

Sassenach · Nov 20, 2006

Amy:

Please take this advice in the spirit it is offered--to help another writer. It is obvious from your posts that you need to educate yourself about submission guidelines and the publishing business in general. Until you do, you're wasting your time and money [not to mention many reams of innocent paper.]

veinglory · Nov 20, 2006

I would suggest having a few people look at the book and suggest appropriate publishers. Then send them exactly what they want. Query letters, generally, which are much less expensive to send. That way you only send the whole manuscript to someone who really wants to see it--which improves the cost:benefit equation.

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

it *is* good artwork.

That said, what you have to sell the publisher on first and foremost is the writing. And THEN, you have to sell them beyond three chapters, and THEN you can say "Er. Um. I have art?"

Elektra · Nov 20, 2006

On illustrations:

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/09/3rd-sr-crapometer-35.html

Also, does Manga have anything to do with your novel? To be honest, if I saw this in a submission, my first thought would be "teenager doodling during class"--and it would definitely hinder my abilit to take you seriously.

PeeDee · Nov 20, 2006

I've always liked the idea of illustrated adult novels, though I rarely see it usefully done.

Mostly, though, my world continues pleasently enough even without illustrated adult novels....and the novel had better be able to support itself without a single illustration (or, in the case of that Crapometer...a flipping bar graph.)

CaroGirl · Nov 20, 2006

Your artwork is great, beautiful, fantastic. My advice is the same: don't send it with your manuscript. Are you trying to sell your story, or your art? If you want to publish your novel, send a query to the publishers on your list, then respond with a partial or full, if requested. If you want to be hired on staff or contract to do artwork for a publisher (and you seem to have quite enough talent to do so), send them your artwork. But don't send both. Like PeeDee says, if they accept your manuscript, you can, at that time, present the artwork and they will either accept it, or use their own artists, their choice.

Good luck to you.

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