A little help...?

gwendy85 said:

Hey guys! I was wondering if you could give me a little advice on this. You see, my story involves the constant changing of dates and places. Dates, I can manage. But places...


So far, what I've been doing is writing the Date and current place on the top portion of the page, where the scene will be changing. But my genre is not spy thriller or anything like that, but a historical. Lately, I've been thinking of simply writing the dates (uber important) and just write in the place via the next paragraphs. But I don't know how well that will work.

Also, which is better to describe when writing? Older? Elder?

Ex:

She enjoyed seeing her older sister uncomfortable, for it rarely ever happened.

What do you guys think? Thanks

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I've seen many historicals that use a heading of "Place, Date" at the start of each chapter. Just this afternoon, in fact: "Vienna, Austria - 1808" was the heading on Chap 1 of a historical kind of romance. Next chapter heading was "England, 1816" or such. Worked just fine.

As for older/elder, I've used both. What do the grammarians around here have to say??

The important thing isn't the actual thing you do, but to make sure the reader is clear in his or her head where he or she is in the story (and try not to clutter up the narrative, which is why Bree's good suggestion is one often used).

I agree with Bree also, just note the place and date at the top of the chapter. As a reader, I would rather see that than have to wade through a constant description of each place at the beginning of each chapter. And with the heading, it's always completely clear where and when that part of the story is taking place.

Like the other responders, I'd tend toward place and date at the beginning as well. It gives the reader a clear indication of what they're facing, and clarity is always good for the reader.

With regard to eldest/oldest, I think it's mostly a style question. Eldest is a term that can only refer to something living (as far as I'm aware), but that doesn't really matter since you're talking about siblings. To me, eldest seems a bit more formal whereas oldest is more familiar and unstructured. My recommendation would be to go with whichever feels better to you.

Amiton.

IMO... Since its an historical story, I would use "Elder" if it were more modern day, I would use older. But thats just me.

Good luck with it!

Elder and older appear interchangeable in your example. Choose whichever one better fits the tone of your piece. In terms of the rest of the sentence, I dislike when people us "for" or "since" in place of because (I think it's confusing and inaccurate). And you don't need the word "ever". It's superfluous in this example.

Using the chapter heading to precisely identify the date and location is fine. But, you should still make sure there is some indication in the text. When I'm fully absorbed in reading a novel, I don't notice chapter breaks. So I don't see the chapter heads. It's very jarring to get several paragraphs into a scene before I discover it's not the same characters and not the same setting as the previous scene. Given the chapter headings, you don't need much description; something as simple as naming a character in the first paragraph can be enough: What, Lord Coverly?--glance at the top of the page--oh, new chapter--we're back in London again--OK.

Naming a character isn't the only way, of course. It depends on the specifics of your story. You can also identify a key difference between your settings and briefly mention one detail that references that difference. Say one location is in a busy city and the other is rural. Then the first paragraph of a city chapter would mention traffic noise or street vendors or nightlife (not the same detail every time). Begin a country chapter with a detail about the quiet or isolation or nature. Or say you have two time periods. Maybe one is the middle of a war or famine and the other is a time of peace and prosperity. Or mood--one setting is gloomy and oppressive, while the other is light and cheerful. Find the distinction and highlight it with telling details.

As per the "older / elder" question, to me, older sounds younger and less formal than elder. You often hear, "Elder Statesman" but you never hear, "Older Statesman." It depends on the feel you are trying to convey.

gwendy85 said:

Also, which is better to describe when writing? Older? Elder?

Ex:

She enjoyed seeing her older sister uncomfortable, for it rarely ever happened.

What do you guys think? Thanks

Click to expand...

This is a bit of character development isn't it? Which would the character use to describe her? What fits the flow of the novel and the perception you're developing of this character and their POV?


My rule of thumb (because a rule of wrist is barbarous) is to use the word that feels right. If neither word feels right, or you find yourself tripping over the sentence each time you re-read that section, well, look for another one.

Okay, I looked it up. Elder means the person is older than another, but not necessarily "old". As in someone's relative age to another person. In which case, your example would use "elder" as in "elder sibling". And elder is typically used only to refer to people, "eldest child," vs. "oldest shoes".

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elder
http://www.bartleby.com/68/45/2145.html

I'd say put in the dates and all, and use either elder or older. Once it's picked up, your editor will make the final decisions on it for you. In other words, its not something to spend too much time agonizing about right now. Write on.

Imelda said:

I think elder and older have different meanings. It certainly isn't a case of style. Unfortunately, I can't remember the rule that was drilled into me. I'd head down the the grammar section.

As for the headings: stick with date and place. I hate it when I have to guess!

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They have slightly different denotative definitions, but the connotative definition is similar enough that your reader isn't going to take issue with the use of either.

I would use elder. Since it's an historical novel. However, that's a style preference.

Gwendy85,

You probably got all the suggestions you need, but I, too, used the date/place format at the beginning of my chapters. I personally appreciate being oriented to what the ensuing text covers, but maybe I'm just dense that way. Besides, " -- 841 BC: The Valley of Jezreel --" just looks cool!

gwendy85 said:

Hey guys! I was wondering if you could give me a little advice on this. You see, my story involves the constant changing of dates and places. Dates, I can manage. But places...


So far, what I've been doing is writing the Date and current place on the top portion of the page, where the scene will be changing. But my genre is not spy thriller or anything like that, but a historical. Lately, I've been thinking of simply writing the dates (uber important) and just write in the place via the next paragraphs. But I don't know how well that will work.

Also, which is better to describe when writing? Older? Elder?

Ex:

She enjoyed seeing her older sister uncomfortable, for it rarely ever happened.

What do you guys think? Thanks

Click to expand...

I do this in my novels; kind of like logging reports. I use a header like

10 - Deathmatch
San Diego Harbor, Saturday, 1989

Sometimes something more, sometimes something less. You could be more specific.

John Serra