Pardon me, your infodump is showing

Okay... is it true that spec fic readers tolerate more infodumps than other readers?

I thought of this after seeing "If all stories were written like science fiction stories" ( www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight ), and after reading a recent Hugo winning novel that started with a three-page-long infodump.

I know to be cautious of infodumps in general, but in my novel mss I actually want to impart some knowledge of the science involved, so isn't an infodump of some sort necessary?

edited but I still can't fix the %&#* link

Fixed link. --J

It's only an infodump if it isn't interesting.

Just make it interesting and spend too much time on it.

First, Holly, here's the link in 'normal' format:

www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight

and in 'helpful' format:

If all stories were written like science fiction stories

to do the first, go to the website, copy the URL to your clipboard. Here, paste in the URL, highlight it, but do not include any punctuation that isn't a part of the URL itself, then click on the "link" button.

to do the second, the procedure is the same, but here, FIRST click on the link button, paste in the URL, then when the 2nd dialog box pops up, type in the phrasing you want.
As for info dumps, yes, often SF stories are more loaded with exposition than are other stories, mainly because, like you, SF writers have GOBS of stuff to explain that would take volumes if handled in action. However, it can be done with elegance, as Orson Card shows in his book How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy (beginning on page 88 ). He recommends the book by Octavia Butler Wild Seed and so do I.

But, I think two pages of nothing but info dump, especially when some of it could be left in question and explained in bits and pieces later in the story, is a bad idea.

Same problem often occurs in historical novels, which like sf/fantasy novels have to establish an unfamiliar context.

Weaving the background information into the story in an organic way is one of the biggest challenges of writing spec fic, IMO.

Infodumps can be done gracefully, though--a good example is Scott Westerfeld's sf novel The Risen Empire, where he has all kinds of nifty tech to introduce, and several times simply presents a little mini-lecture. For whatever reason, it works.

- Victoria

infodump

As someone once said, it's only an infodump if it's done poorly and isn't needed.

Some info must be given, but you don't have to give it all at once. This is what makes an infodump, too much all at once because it interrupts the flow of the story.

I don't know which SF novel you're talking about, but three pages of info may be an info dump, and may have no relationship to an info dump at all.

If it's something you're concerned about, and something that really needs to be known, consider putting it as a prologue.

I know a lot of people don't read prologues, but if they find there's something they need to know in it, they'll likely go back to read it.

In a fantasy ms that I need to finish revising, I have different classes of dragons and each class is a different color. THat's important, so I have a short prologue where the POV character is giving that information to someone else. It's effective, I think, but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the rest of the story, other than the significance of the colors, so it works.

That might be something to consider.

~Jen

I like to use the stranger approach, in particular a stranger from our world who would have our questions.

In one place in me WIP I have a character from one world explain the way another culture works by saying, "They do that the same way we do this," which explains two cultures at once to us who know nothing of either.

I started Wild Seed, intending to analyze it for infodumps, and I got so wrapped up in the story that I forgot about my "analysis" altogether! I guess that illustrates the point perfectly... if the infodump is invisible, it isn't an infodump.

Thanks for the advice, everyone (and extra to thanks Pthom for formatting advice!).


Go Sox!

I started Wild Seed, intending to analyze it for infodumps, and I got so wrapped up in the story that I forgot about my "analysis" altogether! I guess that illustrates the point perfectly... if the infodump is invisible, it isn't an infodump.

Click to expand...

This is Card's point, exactly. Butler has a knack of putting exposition in her stories in such a way that you don't notice, yet as you read, you understand everything...without feeling you've been "told."

The whole infodump issue is a sore point with me.

I've been writing a science-fiction novel series for the last 8-plus years and as the fictional universe has become ever more complex, a certain amount of backstory to bring new readers up to date is necessary...especially if you're dealing with serial story arcs wherein subplots are either advanced or resolved.

Any ongoing series faces the infodump problem, but it's cubed in a science-fiction series.

It's tough to choose the best way to present the information, either about premise or characters but I have rarely if ever started out a book dealing the backstory.

I try to scatter it, spread it out over the course of the individual book. But even that isn't completely satisfactory. It's just one of the drawbacks of the form.:\

The books that stick in my mind are Dune (the first half of the book is interesting and needed infodump, as I recall) and the Wheel of Time series, by R. Jordan (too much of *everything*,
including infodumps, in those books, IMHO)

It is very possible to work information seamlessly into sci fi/fantasy stories: Anne McCaffrey, Holly Lisle, Mercedes Lackey, Tolkien, John Ringo all come to mind as authors who do a good job of revealing the details of an unknown world without overwhelming or boring the reader.

Dune

I was also thinking of Dune when I read this thread.

That book is a perfect example of scifi without infodumps at all. (Most of the exposition is more... philosophical in nature.) Mr. Herbert plops you into that world as it were present day NYC, not explaining anything whatsoever. You have to really pay attention to figure out what's going on. I had a hard time with that book, but I completely trusted and believed the world because the characters melded so easily into it.

An old writing teacher of mine used to write "RUE" all over my work. That stood for "resist the urge to explain." Too much infodump is a sign you don't trust your own writing skills, I think.

Re: Dune

RUE is a good one, and not just for infodump. The same goes with internal monologue, descriptions, etc. When you find yourself writing half a page describing a toilet, STOP! When you find yourself explaining the character's every thought, STOP! When you find the author inside you intruding the story, STOP!

Re: Dune

This might not be a great example, but Harry Potter springs to mind. Specifically, Jo Rowling. She knows every single detail about her world. Most of which will never see the mass-produced world.

Now granted, she has Harry the neophyte to ask questions and avoid massive infodumps, but in other things, she just lets people talk. I akin this to those [in-person] Berlitz language courses. They dump you in the middle of "Germania". There is no English. You either learn how to read a map to your space, ask a mod where to find a loo, and/or pass a note to that hottie or you get so lost you wonder why you paid all the money in the first place.

When someone is reading your book, they are dropped into the middle of your world to tag along with your characters. Either you have written well enough that they feel like an assimilated immigrant by the last page or they wonder why they spent the time and money.

Its not easy, which is why I like to read passages that could be infodumps aloud. If it sounds like a forced conversation solely to explain that plutonium is red and violets are blue and together they go boom, then the red pen comes a'slashin'. But if it sounds like two people arguing over Super Commander Polo's new policy over storing red and blue in the same warehouse because it saves parsecs, well then I've got something...I think.