Moan, moan, complain...this is NOT a hate thread!

scarletpeaches · Oct 18, 2006

A few days ago I bought a novel from my local supermarket. Less than £4 so I thought why not...

Turns out it's a blatant ride-on-the-back-of-DVC, man and woman get together to solve a centuries-old mystery, assassination at the start, romance at the end, lots of bad men, religious fanatics, child-level puzzles in between...

My point is this. Right from the first chapter there are glaring linguistic (?) errors such as "They descended down the stairs...", head jumping, "She couldn't see him, but he was thinking such and such..."

It makes me think, if sh!t like this can be published, why am I still languishing in obscurity?

I know people will say, "Keep trying SP, you'll get there in the end," but...jings! I know for a fact my command of the English language is better than this man's, and yet HE is published? He even thanks his agent at the back of the book and it's an agent who's knocked me back!

So then I got to thinking, maybe my story isn't quite as wonderful as I like. The language is good, I know that, but what about the story?

Thing is, another agent who knocked me back more or less said, "The story's good, it's just not my thing."

It really p!sses me off that people can get books published when they simply cannot write 'good' English. I mean, that's one of the basic tools of the trade, right? You wouldn't try to build a house with defective bricks. How can you get published if you can't use words correctly?

I know, I know what you're all thinking. "This agent liked that book," "It's a matter of preference," etc etc...

But when a book has such glaring errors...it makes me spit!

Or am I being picky because I'm not just a reader, I'm a writer too?!

RedMolly · Oct 18, 2006

Oooh, Peaches, trust me... I know whereof you speak. As a fantasy reader/writer, I know all too freakin' well.

But then, I've not yet completed or submitted anything, so my snarls over bad bad books tend to be tempered with a little inner thrill of "gol-lee, if this crap can get published, my chances are surely more than zero!" So I'll be exactly where you are in about a year and a half. *sigh*

NeuroFizz · Oct 18, 2006

Just keep building on your strengths, Scarlet, and know when you are published, writer-readers will not pick up your book and comment on your loose grip of the craft.

Becky Writes · Oct 18, 2006

I get ya.

My big peeve is when the book is obviously mediocore but becasue it's the author's umpteenth novel, it gets published anyway.

Maybe some of us un-discovered would have a chance if publishing companies would reject less than great from established authors. They expect close to perfection from the unpublished, but once you get in the door the bar on what's acceptable doesn't seem so high.

JMO, of course.

Scrawler · Oct 18, 2006

I'm with Becky! I like "women's fiction-romantic comedy" type books, but 3 of the most unreadable books I've thrown across the room are second or third books from some mediocre yet inexplicably published authors. Unknown first timers like me wouldn't even get the MS, which reads like a poor first draft, looked at, much less published.
Anyway, I've used these awful books as tools to help me spot flaws and holes in my own work. Mentally editing, stumbling over horrible paragraphs, and becoming frustrated with weak plots just makes me thank the agents who rejected me. I can do better.
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]

scarletpeaches · Oct 18, 2006

I'll give you all 'menshies'* in my first book. (First PUBLISHED book I mean)!

* Dundee slang for 'mention' or 'acknowledgements', in writer-speak.

Del · Oct 18, 2006

A famous name sells books. A publisher wants to make a buck. He cares less about delivering a story then he does of the money.

I want to deliver the story. The money is enticing but most of us will never really see much of it. I think it is inherent in the success that writing drops off after you attain it. The effort to be accepted is no longer essential.

I think it is like almost any job. Once you've made it, the effort you employed to get there wanes.

rugcat · Oct 18, 2006

Scrawler said:
... 3 of the most unreadable books I've thrown across the room are second or third books from some mediocre yet inexplicably published authors.

You're missing the most important point; publishing is a business. If there is a second or third book, that means that the first book sold a bunch of copies.

Yes, it's sad, but the reading public is as much to blame as any agent or publisher. We may complain that inane, predictable, poorly wriiten sitcoms often dominate TV, whereas quality shows sink with barely a trace. But surely that's not a surprise. You may believe the book reading public is of higher quality, but I think the jury's still out on that one.

That said, yes, it is frustrating. It's tempting to think, "well, if that crap is getting published, I certainly have a real chance." But it doesn't work that way; all you can do is produce the best work you're capable of, send it out, and accept rejection, even underserved rejection, especially undeserved rejection as part of the game.

To succeed you need talent, luck,and perseverence, and the only thing totally under your control is perseverence. Sadly, perseverence doesn't guarantee success, but lack of it does guarantee failure.

Keep at it.

Summonere · Oct 18, 2006

…the chains do rattle, ‘tis a ghost I hear, that one I have named “yesteryear”…

If two agents bounced your work but one said the story was good but wasn’t his kind-o thing, your trick is to match an apparently good story with an agent who likes the kind-o thing you storytell. After all, you now know that at least one pro in the biz sez groovy-groovy-gumdrops, but I like licorice… Keep the story circulating. Write some more. Welcome to the netherworld in which hope, like twilight, ever yields upon the horizon neither darkness nor light. This is the half-light of almost there.

Allie · Oct 18, 2006

Sometimes horrible is compelling. Like Howard Stern, you can't stand watch him, but you can't turn him off.

aadams73 · Oct 18, 2006

Was it a really well-known bestselling author? Because he could be one of the types who refuses editing.(uhem, Anne Rice) I think everyone needs to be edited.

Simon Woodhouse · Oct 18, 2006

Delarege said:
A famous name sells books. A publisher wants to make a buck. He cares less about delivering a story then he does of the money.

I was thinking along similar lines the other day. I write sci-fi, and I've had plenty of rejects. But I was wondering what would happen if on my query letter I said I had a degree in astro-physics, and was a former employee of NASA who worked on the Hubble Telescope. I've noticed that the blurb on lots of sci-fi novels often includes a list the author's credentials, especially if they're in any way science related. But does this make what he's written any better story-wise? Maybe, maybe not, but I get the feeling it would have helped to get his novel taken seriously, and perhaps influenced the publisher, because his credentials can be used as a marketing tool.

SpookyWriter · Oct 18, 2006

Some infamous names have also done well on the book circuit. I read stories of well know authors and cringe sometimes when I come across a horribly written scene. I think there are times when even a poorly written book makes it into the book world simply by chance. There are also times when, as others had pointed out, that the name carries the book into publication.

Is this fair? Probably not, but given that there are market forces in play I'm sure any publisher would rather take a known commodity that sells over an unknown any day of the week.

All I can say is keep writing great stuff and continue to improve until you get the attention of a savvy agent. Don't fall into the trap that there are worse writers publishing so why ain't I? Do better by proving it to an agent or publisher.

Just a rambling along...

Maprilynne · Oct 18, 2006

I think my worst moment of This-is-crap-ness (it's a real word, I promise) was when I picked up a *cough, cough* Danielle Steele novel to find out what all the hype was about. It was the second worst book I have ever read. (The first was one I had recommended to me by my grandmother and I threw it across the room it was so badly written.)
I have also been known to take a book and highlight all the unecessary "that"s just because they were driving me nuts!! The book looked like it had green measles when I was done.
Unfortunately, loads of crap out there doesn't improve your chances of being published. But write a damn good story and somebody's got to see it. We all hope.

Maprilynne

stormie · Oct 18, 2006

What I really hate is when I go on Amazon, see a book that sounds interesting, buy it, go to read it and...ugghh. Yet, as you said, scarlet, the author is thanking his/her very reputable agent, and the publisher is one of the big ones. And yeah, it's usually a book from an author who's been proven to sell.

Oh well. Back to writing.

kuatolives · Oct 18, 2006

I think my worst moment of This-is-crap-ness (it's a real word, I promise) was when I picked up a *cough, cough* Danielle Steele novel to find out what all the hype was about.

You picked up her book to see what all the hype was about and wondered why it was crap then wondered why people buy crap and why publishers sell crap.*shakes head*. Think about that for a few minutes. It's your fault, nobody elses. If you never picked it up in the first place just because of hype, you wouldnt have to wade through an ocean of crap just to read something decent.

Consumers dictate what sells. By picking up that Danielle steele book 'to see what all the hype was about' you just feed the feedback loop. Publishers dont give a damn if you enjoy a book or not, they just care if you buy it.

As for the original poster bummed because she can't get published yet sees garbage being published...same goes for you. Stop buying crap and crap will stop being published. You're the consumer. The money flows from your pocket. By buying that book, you just helped ensure 3 more books gets published by the same jackass who wrote it.

Ad Astra · Oct 18, 2006

But how will you know the book is crap unless you read it?

John61480 · Oct 18, 2006

I get the opposite feelings. When I see that kind of writing, I get excited knowing I have somewhat of a chance in getting published. Especially if its the same genre and so on.

janetbellinger · Oct 18, 2006

I feel the same way but dammit, nobody ever said life was fair.

scarletpeaches said:
A few days ago I bought a novel from my local supermarket. Less than £4 so I thought why not...

Turns out it's a blatant ride-on-the-back-of-DVC, man and woman get together to solve a centuries-old mystery, assassination at the start, romance at the end, lots of bad men, religious fanatics, child-level puzzles in between...

My point is this. Right from the first chapter there are glaring linguistic (?) errors such as "They descended down the stairs...", head jumping, "She couldn't see him, but he was thinking such and such..."

It makes me think, if sh!t like this can be published, why am I still languishing in obscurity?

I feel the same way but dammit, nobody ever said life was fair.
I know people will say, "Keep trying SP, you'll get there in the end," but...jings! I know for a fact my command of the English language is better than this man's, and yet HE is published? He even thanks his agent at the back of the book and it's an agent who's knocked me back!

So then I got to thinking, maybe my story isn't quite as wonderful as I like. The language is good, I know that, but what about the story?

Thing is, another agent who knocked me back more or less said, "The story's good, it's just not my thing."

It really p!sses me off that people can get books published when they simply cannot write 'good' English. I mean, that's one of the basic tools of the trade, right? You wouldn't try to build a house with defective bricks. How can you get published if you can't use words correctly?

I know, I know what you're all thinking. "This agent liked that book," "It's a matter of preference," etc etc...

But when a book has such glaring errors...it makes me spit!

Or am I being picky because I'm not just a reader, I'm a writer too?!

ShannonC_77 · Oct 18, 2006

I find this moreso with non-fiction magazines in the fitness industry. Being a past personal trainer myself I cannot believe the loads of garbage that get published. I seriously want to scream when I read something like what was in the last "Woman's Health" about how you should walk backwards on the treadmill because apparently you burn more calories. It's soooooo annoying.

Del · Oct 18, 2006

Allie said:
Sometimes horrible is compelling. Like Howard Stern, you can't stand watch him, but you can't turn him off.

Howard who?

ChaosTitan · Oct 18, 2006

Maprilynne said:
I think my worst moment of This-is-crap-ness (it's a real word, I promise) was when I picked up a *cough, cough* Danielle Steele novel to find out what all the hype was about.

I tried this maneuver with James Patterson.

:e2yawn:

From now on, I'm doing my "hype checker" shopping at the flea market so I can waste fifty cents instead of eight bucks.

Del · Oct 18, 2006

Ad Astra said:
But how will you know the book is crap unless you read it?

I buy bulk bags of books at thrift stores (5 paperbacks for $2.00). I found John Nance that way, whom I enjoy. The other 4 crapouts didn't get a cent from me but I've since made John a few bucks.

Yard sales, used book stores...theft. (j/k)

Del · Oct 18, 2006

John61480 said:
I get the opposite feelings. When I see that kind of writing, I get excited knowing I have somewhat of a chance in getting published. Especially if its the same genre and so on.

OPTIMISM!!

Great stuff.

Del · Oct 18, 2006

chaostitan said:
I tried this maneuver with James Patterson.

From now on, I'm doing my "hype checker" shopping at the flea market so I can waste fifty cents instead of eight bucks.

LOL, I have two Paterson flea market books by the bed as I type. I've not been able to immerse myself in the first. Perhaps I'll send you the second.

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