Which "guru" is the least full of ****?
I say Vogler, [Redacted--JDM] , and Gulino.
And Trottier.
And Martell.
I say Vogler, [Redacted--JDM] , and Gulino.
And Trottier.
And Martell.
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Screenwriting Guru Deathmatch!
- Thread starter BottomlessCup
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Gurus.
Experts. Those who write books and hold seminars and pontificate on the "rules."
From my post, it's Christopher Vogler of "The Writer's Journey", Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster, Paul Gulino of "Screenwriting:The Sequence Approach", David Trottier of "The Screenwriter's Bible" and William C. Martell of "The Secrets of Action Screenwriting."
I have no love for Robert McKee or Syd Field.
Experts. Those who write books and hold seminars and pontificate on the "rules."
From my post, it's Christopher Vogler of "The Writer's Journey", Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster, Paul Gulino of "Screenwriting:The Sequence Approach", David Trottier of "The Screenwriter's Bible" and William C. Martell of "The Secrets of Action Screenwriting."
I have no love for Robert McKee or Syd Field.
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Any book that tries to demonstrate any facet of screenwriting with a graph or flow chart/diagram thing. Grrr.... this is my art not a friggin' distribution survey!!
I realize what gurus are, I was talking about the people you listed. I don't know who they are. I have never heard their names, but then again I haven't read any script writing or writing books other than The Little Brown Book.
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I'm part of the [Redacted--JDM] fan club, read his columns on Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster - they're free and interesting.
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Alex Epstein for features, and Larry Brody for TV. Less B.S.
That said, my fave writing guru is John Gardner.
The one I hate is Blake Snyder. Not because his advice is bad. It's actually pretty good. I just hate anybody who's so positive. He's Mr. Happy Happy Joy Joy, and I wanna punch him in the mouth.
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Some gurus on character:
http://www.empirecontact.com/magicstar/character.html
That said, my fave writing guru is John Gardner.
The one I hate is Blake Snyder. Not because his advice is bad. It's actually pretty good. I just hate anybody who's so positive. He's Mr. Happy Happy Joy Joy, and I wanna punch him in the mouth.
edit
Some gurus on character:
http://www.empirecontact.com/magicstar/character.html
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Books can tell you how to write.
That is good.
Books can't tell you what to write.
Major problem.
That is good.
Books can't tell you what to write.
Major problem.
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I like Bill
because he's real life.
He breaks things down in to daily, managable segments, focused on one point at a time based off of recent movies.
Plus he's accessable.
And he's nice.
I really like Ted's articles on Wordplay, kinda the same thing but usually bigger then Martell's. Just kind of a different style, more of a business approach.
Vogler is a good story person.
Trottier is basic principles and format.
I haven't read Mckee or Field.
Ice, you really need to pop over to scriptsecrets and read Bill's tips.
because he's real life.
He breaks things down in to daily, managable segments, focused on one point at a time based off of recent movies.
Plus he's accessable.
And he's nice.
I really like Ted's articles on Wordplay, kinda the same thing but usually bigger then Martell's. Just kind of a different style, more of a business approach.
Vogler is a good story person.
Trottier is basic principles and format.
I haven't read Mckee or Field.
Ice, you really need to pop over to scriptsecrets and read Bill's tips.
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Bill Martell
Bill offers a model to work from, one that has been successful for him in the direct to video and television movie markets. Nothing wrong with that. There is no one way to do things.
Besides, he is a cool guy. Met him once.
Bill offers a model to work from, one that has been successful for him in the direct to video and television movie markets. Nothing wrong with that. There is no one way to do things.
Besides, he is a cool guy. Met him once.
I can't hate Syd Field because his is the first book I ever read on screenwriting, and after publishing five novels, his explanation of 3-act structure was the first time "plot" ever made sense to me. Have others written better books? Has his book been misused and are his page numbers ridiculous? Well, probably, but his general analysis of story opened the door for me to understand, so I like him. (I also haven't read his book in years.)
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One can never read too much. Take what works for you from whatever source it comes. If a book has nothing that speaks to you, ignore it. But one can never be exposed to too much information, I don't think.
Joe Unidos said:
Unless it reduces you to a stage that you are so shell shocked by the varied opinions that you can't actually write in your own clear, distinct voice.
I've spent 20 years as an advertising copywriter / creative director, and have just started to tinker with screenplays in the past 2 years.
For me, one of the most helpful books as a novice was one called "How NOT To Write A Screenplay." It basically covers the top 100 or so mistakes that tell an experienced reader that you don't know what you're doing.
Other books I've read are designed to help you look like a genius. This one is primarily designed to make you not look like an idiot. It's not the end-all and be-all by any means, but I would highly recommend it to someone who is just starting out.
For me, one of the most helpful books as a novice was one called "How NOT To Write A Screenplay." It basically covers the top 100 or so mistakes that tell an experienced reader that you don't know what you're doing.
Other books I've read are designed to help you look like a genius. This one is primarily designed to make you not look like an idiot. It's not the end-all and be-all by any means, but I would highly recommend it to someone who is just starting out.
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And
it's quite funny to boot!
Till you pick up your own script and have an "Ah CRAP!" moment.
You know, like the "You might be a redneck if-"
Ha ha ha ha h....... wait a minute.
it's quite funny to boot!
Till you pick up your own script and have an "Ah CRAP!" moment.
You know, like the "You might be a redneck if-"
Ha ha ha ha h....... wait a minute.