Need Some Roman Research Help!

Status
Not open for further replies.

army_grunt13

Veteran Turned Writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Website
www.legionarybooks.net
Guys,

I'm doing some historical research for the second book in my "Soldier of Rome" series, and am at a bit of a stumbling block. My first book, "Soldier of Rome: The Legionary" (coming this winter from iUniverse) was fairly easy to research. It takes place between 15-17 A.D. and covers the campaigns of Germanicus Caesar and his wars against Arminius in Germania. These campaigns are detailed in depth in the Annals of Tacitus, which was my primary source.

Since I pride myself in making certain that my books, though historical fiction, do not deviate from historical fact, I try and do as much research as possible. I've hit a snag when trying to do research for my second book, which starts in the year A.D 20, just prior to the Gallic revolt under Julius Sacrovir and Julius Florus (FYI: Soldier of Rome follows the career of a Roman Legionary, kind of in the same vein as C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower followed the career of a British Naval Officer). I used Tacitus again to provide me with the most historical research, however I find myself having to use what I think is an excessive amount of literary license on this one.

Thing is, the revolt under Sacrovir and Florus was not on nearly the same scale as that of the wars against Arminius. And since I intend to keep my books as historically "pure" as possible, I'm not about to invent entire wars that just did not happen. With that in mind, Books Two and Three of the Soldier of Rome series are going to be the most difficult for me to research. Together they take place between the years 20-28 A.D. in Germania, where our hero is a Legionary serving with the Twentieth Legion. Does anybody know of any valid historical sources that would be of use for this time period? Thanks!
 

pdr

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
4,259
Reaction score
832
Location
Home - but for how long?
Difficult!

Yes I know you are not writing about Roman Britain but try the British Library. Not to borrow a book, but they do sell books and things like reports on Roman digs and translations of the men's letters from Vinlandia was it? On Hadrian's wall. They also have some seriously good reference books to buy on the Romans.
Url up in resources.

There's also http://www.roman-britain.org/main.htm which has an excellent books and reference section which may put you on to something.
 

Deleted member 42

I'd Google Roman Germany; there are a couple of museums of Roman villas in Germany. There's the Journal Of Roman Archaeology, which has lots of articles about this period, though you'll likely need an academic library.
 

Puma

Retired and loving it!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
7,340
Reaction score
1,540
Location
Central Ohio
Not sure about this - but is there anything in the writings of Pliny the Elder or Seneca or ... Pliny is a bit young, but it's not impossible there might be some references. Seneca is the right time period. Second question, is there anyone in Greece who might have written something useful to you. And last question - are there any early German histories recorded from word of mouth accounts in illustrated manuscripts that might have some information? Puma
 

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
1,009
Age
71
Location
Calgary, Canada
Another possibility is the folks over at Net Sword. Their knowledge of battles fought throughout pre-industrial Europe and Britain is extensive.
 

pdr

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
4,259
Reaction score
832
Location
Home - but for how long?
Nope!

I'd advise anyone writing about the Romans to read the 'letters' and 'diaries' written during the period. It's the best thing any writer of any period novel can do to learn how the people of their period thought and talked.

The Vindolanda 'letters' are a wonderful insight into the mind set of Roman parents writing to their sons far away, to the men and their preoccupations.

The hardest thing in writing a novel set several hundred years in the past is to get the characters to act and speak as 1st, 4th, 10th or 16th century people might do. Letters and diaries help.
 

Deleted member 42

I tried to post this earlier and couldn't. The Vindolanda Tablets site is here. It's not the most intelligently organized site, but there's a lot of useful, and interesting stuff there; poke around a bit.
 

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
army_grunt13 said:
With that in mind, Books Two and Three of the Soldier of Rome series are going to be the most difficult for me to research. Together they take place between the years 20-28 A.D. in Germania, where our hero is a Legionary serving with the Twentieth Legion. Does anybody know of any valid historical sources that would be of use for this time period? Thanks!

I don't think there was much action going on in Germania Transrhenania after 16AD when Tiberius officially recalled the army from that area and stuck to the Rhine border. From that moment on the German tribes were at each others' throats again like good little barbarians. :D

I'm sure you can find another war somewhere in the Empire, though. The eastern client kingdoms were a bunch of troubleshooters, too. Or get your hero into Rome with a special commission - the intrigues in Rome are always fun. :tongue
 

army_grunt13

Veteran Turned Writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Website
www.legionarybooks.net
Thanks for the Feedback!

Thanks guys, I do appreciate the feedback! Oh, and Gabriele, sorry about hijacking your Germanicus/Arminius idea! :flag: As for campaigns/plots, I'm using the Gallic revolt under Sacrovir and Florus for the plot to Book Two (which ironically is called "Soldier of Rome: The Sacrovir Revolt"), and I'm PROBABLY going to use the Frisian revolt for part of the campaign plot in Book Three. Thing is, I almost feel like books Two and Three are almost "filler" before I get to Book Four, which is where things pick up again historically. However, I do not want "filler" books, but rather books that can stand in their own right.

I have to say that since posting this, I have gotten past a large portion of my writer's block and have been on a role with The Sacrovir Revolt. Currently I'm sitting at about 36,000 words, which isn't a bad start (my final version of The Legionary was about 123,000). I like Gabriele's ideas for "special assignments" to Rome. Hope I don't hijack any more of your ideas!

Thanks again!
 

Deleted member 42

Aw, ditch the Germanic barbarians, and come over to the Celts and Britain!
 

army_grunt13

Veteran Turned Writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Website
www.legionarybooks.net
Artorius vs. The Celts

Medievalist, don't worry, Artorius will take on the Celts in Britain in due time! Remember though, The Legionary takes place from 15-17 A.D., and the invasion of Britain didn't take place until 41 or 43 A.D. (can't remember which). But yes, I do have plans for that. I have plot points and reasons for keeping him in Germania through Book Three. Without giving away everything, suffice it to say that Book Four takes place in Judea, and Book Five in Britain.
 

Deleted member 42

The successful invasion, but there were encampments before then, and, though Ireland wasn't invaded, the Romans did explore the turf.
 

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
army_grunt13 said:
Thanks guys, I do appreciate the feedback! Oh, and Gabriele, sorry about hijacking your Germanicus/Arminius idea! :flag:

Lol, no big deal. There's in fact a German trilogy about the Varus battle and its aftermath by Iris Kammerer, and I thought I'd stay clear of that particular plotbunny. Until I visited the battle site and museum at Kalkriese this summer. Since Iris doesn't have the actual battle, and I love to write military historical fiction, I got the idea for A Land Unconquered. It will be my Nano this year.

There's place for more than one novel here. Also, I write epic standalones with more than one main character, not series. :)

Btw, have you read Simon Scarrow's Eagle series? He starts shortly before the British invasion in 43 and by now his MC is fighting in Syria.

If you visit my blog and scroll down the sidebar to My Journeys: Pictures and Essays - Lost Romans, you'll find some entries about Kalkriese, with pics.
 

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
Medievalist said:
Aw, ditch the Germanic barbarians, and come over to the Celts and Britain!

I have these, too. Storm over Hadrian's Wall deals with the Picts (aka Selgovae, Votadini, etc.) and part of The Charioteer takes place in Britain during the time the Roman army left for good (the other part in Rome and a few chapters in Gaul).
 

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
army_grunt13 said:
Thing is, I almost feel like books Two and Three are almost "filler" before I get to Book Four, which is where things pick up again historically.

I have plot points and reasons for keeping him in Germania through Book Three. Without giving away everything, suffice it to say that Book Four takes place in Judea, and Book Five in Britain.

What if you combine book 2 and 3 ?
 

Kentuk

I want to write what I want to write
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
1,059
Reaction score
213
Location
The mud hole in the middle of Margins
Would like to point out that periods and situations not well covered by the historians of the time are a great place for a novelist to 'play'. Need action? Move closer to the front i.e. the Emperor withdraws the legions leaving just a few people to do the work of many.
 

army_grunt13

Veteran Turned Writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Website
www.legionarybooks.net
Gabriele said:
What if you combine book 2 and 3 ?

I've thought about it, but the timeframe is just too long for one book. Also, I tried reading one of Scarrow's books and just could not get into it. The dialect and the way it was written just did not strike me as believable. To be honest, one turn off for me was reading that the Centurion was illiterate. Sorry, but I seriously doubt that an illiterate Soldier would have ever made it past Legionary if he couldn't read. I don't know, maybe I just didn't give them a fair chance.

As for having "the few do the work of the many," I'm kind of working that into the stories as well. I read that it was not unheard of for individual cohorts to be temporarily stationed away from the Legion and acting independantly. As for research into the machinations of the Roman Army, I found The Complete Roman Army by Adrian Goldsworthy to be the best single book out there. My Dad sent it to me when I was in Iraq, and it was (and still is) an excellent source for my works.
 

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
Yep, Scarrow uses a modern language I needed some time to get into. But since I enjoyed McCullough's books and she uses a - different form - of modern language as well, I gave it a go until my brain just reset the language matter to zero. At least it was consequently modern. What peeves me is when modern words creep into a more archaic language.

But Macro tries hard to cover his illitaracy and is always afraid to be found out. People like him still exist today - one of my former neighbours was illiterate and it took me several yeas to see through his excuses.
 

Deleted member 42

There was a high level of literacy in the army, in part, because the administrivia was huge. A fair amount of the materials from Vindolanda are revealatory regarding the literacy levels of the common soldiers ("Mom, send socks!").
 

pdr

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
4,259
Reaction score
832
Location
Home - but for how long?
Books!

Lindsay Davies has an excellent series of books about her Roman investigator, Falco. One of which covers the Germanic rebellion and Britain. Her research is very good.

Yes, Scarrow's use of language grated on me too and I knew that any legion's recruits were actually taught to read and write. A Centurion had to write reports so having him be illiterate didn't ring true.
 

army_grunt13

Veteran Turned Writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Website
www.legionarybooks.net
It wasn't only the illiterate Centurion which grated on me in Scarrow's books, but the way they talked to each other. I wonder if Scarrow has ever served in the military, because the sequence where the Centurion Primus Pilus is railing the recruits felt forced and just not believable. Honestly I pictured a cheesy version of the Drill Instructor from Full Metal Jacket in a Roman costume.

The series that I actually managed to make it through a couple books, because they were actually entertaining, was the "Emperor" series. But then again, while entertaining, the historical aspect was appauling (and these are books that I see all the time on the shelves at Borders and Barnes & Noble). It was so bad, that the only way to get through them was to think of it as a parallel universe with the names of the same people.

It is issues like these that make me so adament about keeping my novels as historically pure as possible. I have often found that the old adage, "Truth is stranger than fiction" to be very apt. While I'm certain that historical purists will probably find some errors in my books, I think they'll find that I stay true to the actual events more than most. I'm not out to reinvent history, but rather tell it as a story, rather than a dry history book (which I actually enjoy, but most people probably don't). Plus I also try and make it clear that literary license has to be used, and any deviations from known historical fact are an error on my part, and completely unintentional. Thankfully, the feedback I've gotten from the drafts of my first book have been favorable in that regard.

One interesting note: One historical character who plays a significant role in my series, yet I was able to take an enormous amount of literary license with is Pontius Pilate. I've worked my backside off trying to research him, and yet there is practically nothing documented prior to his appointment as governor of Judea in around 26 A.D. This basically allowed me to do as I pleased with him (anybody else ever done this?). All I could find was that he was an Army officer before, and a Tribune in the Praetorian Guard before his appointment. I have him as a Military Tribune who is in charge of the Legion's artillery in my first book. While the artillery officer part I completely made up, I was plesantly shocked to read in an excerpt from Josephus that Pilate one time makes the statement that he was at the Battle of Idistaviso, which ironically is the culminating battle in my book. So yeah, it was pretty neat to think that I basically created an entire portion of Pilate's life and career out of thin air, only to find out that according to Josephus he was in fact there. I mean, how cool is that?
 
Last edited:

Gabriele

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
226
Reaction score
33
Location
Germany
Website
lostfort.blogspot.com
Lol, I've invented a circus near Camulodunum for The Charioteer, only to read a few weeks later that archaeologists are digging up one exactly where I put it. :D

There's also a Roman fort at my backdoor, the easternmost ever to be found in Germany. Very recent discovery, too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.