New twist to SASEs

Cathy C · Aug 13, 2006

I can't BELIEVE I forgot about this! This thread over in Query Letter Critiques reminded me that I've been meaning to start a thread over here for ages.

A recent decision by the U.S. Post Office has changed the way we writers will probably have to do business in the future. Now, up until recently, if you sent a partial or full manuscript to an agent/editor, you could EITHER send a #10 business envelope as a self addressed stamped envelope, OR you could send a large envelope, big enough to return the whole manuscript.

The Post Office just screwed that up.

Under current rules, any package that is larger than one pound has to be personally handled by a post office employee AT THE WINDOW! In the blog linked in the above post, an agent expressly states that they have better things to do with their time than stand in line at the post office to send back your manuscript. Now, some might continue to do so (because publishing is a slow moving dinosaur of an industry), but I'll just bet that more and more agents/editors are going to stop this practice pretty quick.

You might wind up spending a lot of money on an envelope, just to get back a single page, when the ms. is thrown away.

Just something to consider when sending out those submissions!

Cabinscribe · Aug 13, 2006

I'm pretty sure you could send it marked "Media Mail", and then it doen't have to be mailed in person.

(I'll have to check thier website regarding manuscripts, but I know this is true for books, CDs, video tapes, etc.)

The reason media mail is exempt from the window rule is because it only is sent via ground, not air mail.

blacbird · Aug 13, 2006

I'd just send my kid to the post office.

caw.

Tish Davidson · Aug 13, 2006

This isn't new. It started after either the 9-11-01 attack or the anthrax scare - can't remember which, but it has been in effect of quite a while. You can't drop anything weighing over 16 ounces in a mail box. A lot of mailboxes have stickers on them that say this.

roach · Aug 13, 2006

Cabinscribe said:
I'm pretty sure you could send it marked "Media Mail", and then it doen't have to be mailed in person.

(I'll have to check thier website regarding manuscripts, but I know this is true for books, CDs, video tapes, etc.)

The reason media mail is exempt from the window rule is because it only is sent via ground, not air mail.

Media Mail is reserved for "Generally used for books (at least eight pages), film, printed music, printed test materials, sound recordings, play scripts, printed educational charts, loose-leaf pages and binders consisting of medical information, and computer-readable media." So it wouldn't work for manuscript pages.

Christine N. · Aug 13, 2006

Well, I just put boxes outside for the postal worker. I have Stamps.com and he picks them up as long as I leave a note.

Most of them aren't much over a pound, an ounce or two, so I guess that's ok.

Roach, my rules say that book manuscripts qualify for media mail. I always send them that way. Well, the Stamps.com link said book ms's qualify. I don't see a reason why they shouldn't - they're not a bill or correspondence and don't have advertising. If play scripts can go, so can book ms's.

I lifted this from the "Choosing a mail service" section of the USPS site( the bolding is mine).

Media Mail™
Small and large packages and thick envelopes can be sent using Media Mail. Contents are limited to books, manuscripts, sound recordings, recorded videotapes, and computer-readable media (not blank). Informally called "Book Rate," Media Mail cannot contain advertising, except eligible books may contain incidental announcements of books. Media Mail is usually less expensive than Parcel Post.

Fahim · Aug 13, 2006

At least one agency I know of has already changed their policy about returning manuscripts. This is straight from their submissions page - "Due to increased postal regulations with regard to packages over two pounds, we ask that you not send an SASE as manuscripts will not be returned."

They asked me to send them my full manuscript but asked for an SASE. I had a question about the SASE and then they wrote back and said that the policy had changed and that they were no longer returning manuscripts. I don't know if the site change was made before or after that but when I checked their site afterwards they had that line in there - which I don't remember from before

Jamesaritchie · Aug 13, 2006

postage

This has been the case for five years. Public mailboxes are supposed to have this information written on them. All the ones in my town have had the 16 ounce limit warning on them since 2001. That agent is way behind the times.

It hasn't affected the way any publishers I deal with handle packages, or with the way any agents I know handle them. It's simply not a problem. Except for this agent, I guess. She's apparently never heard of a package service. And how is it she manages to mail partials and manuscripts to publishers? Does she really go stand in line for each one of these? That's a huge waste of time.

You can still send a large envelope and get your manuscript back from every editor and agent I know. Well, except this one.

This may be a good agency, but there are things in her post other than not returning mansucripts that would frighten me, but that alone is enough.

Fahim · Aug 13, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It hasn't affected the way any publishers I deal with handle packages, or with the way any agents I know handle them. It's simply not a problem. Except for this agent, I guess. She's apparently never heard of a package service. And how is it she manages to mail partials and manuscripts to publishers? Does she really go stand in line for each one of these? That's a huge waste of time.

I'm afraid that you'll have to ask her that, James - one person's waste of time is another's saved time

As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter to me either way. I really don't want to spend all the money to have my manuscript shipped back to Sri Lanka - it's a matter of costs.

ETA:

Jamesaritchie said:
This may be a good agency, but there are things in her post other than not returning mansucripts that would frighten me, but that alone is enough.

Far bet it for me to put words in your mouth and say that you are screaming "fraud" but the above seems to indicate that you have some misgivings about the above agency. If so, you might want to post on the thread about the Prospect Agency which is already there in Bewares and Background Checks and explain your reasoning so that others might benefit from you weighing in

Cabinscribe · Aug 13, 2006

Hi again!

I just spent some time searching the USPS website, and I've had no luck finding it, but I'm positive that media mail is exempt from the "mail-it-in-person" rule.

I did find out that book manuscripts qualify as media mail.

For about 2 years, Hubby has been selling books and music on-line, and he has dealt with 4 or 5 different post offices (granted, all in the same county of NY), and has never had a problem mailing a package that weighs over a pound in a mail box.

Apparently, this rule started as a result of the Unabomber. One postal worker explained that the in-person rule doesn't apply to media mail as it is not shipped by plane. She then (jokingly, I hope) said that it's more expensive to lose a pilot than a truck driver.

It might be worth calling your postmaster, or spending some time on the website. (Be warned: Postal Regulations do not make for interesting reading!)

Good luck, and if I find more specific info, I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I think I'll stick to writing short stories!

roach · Aug 13, 2006

Christine N. said:
Roach, my rules say that book manuscripts qualify for media mail. I always send them that way. Well, the Stamps.com link said book ms's qualify. I don't see a reason why they shouldn't - they're not a bill or correspondence and don't have advertising. If play scripts can go, so can book ms's.

Ah, gotcha. (Dang that's twice this week I've not paid more attention when posting information, maybe I need to impose a time-out on responding.)

Using the correct postage class is a bit of a hot button with me. I worked for a few years at a bookstore that sold used books online and got an earful everytime I went to the post office about people selling items through Ebay misusing the Media Mail class for cheaper shipping.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 13, 2006

Fahim said:
I'm afraid that you'll have to ask her that, James - one person's waste of time is another's saved time As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter to me either way. I really don't want to spend all the money to have my manuscript shipped back to Sri Lanka - it's a matter of costs.

ETA:

Far bet it for me to put words in your mouth and say that you are screaming "fraud" but the above seems to indicate that you have some misgivings about the above agency. If so, you might want to post on the thread about the Prospect Agency which is already there in Bewares and Background Checks and explain your reasoning so that others might benefit from you weighing in

No, not fraud. But even some very honest agents say things and do things that mean I wouldn't want them as an agent. Even some agents who sell novels often say and do things that would frighten me away. This is simply one of them.

As for having manuscript returned, it usully isn't terribly important. I can print another almost as cheap as I can have one returned.

But what happens when you you send SASE, and the agent likes the manuscript, but ten goes through it and asks for changes here and there?

Really, this has been the case for five years, and I don't think postal regulations have much to do with agencies not returning manuscripts. Sounds like a convenient excuse, to me. Don't want to go to the post office, too cheap to hire a package service, fine, don't return manuscripts.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 13, 2006

media mail

Cabinscribe said:
Hi again!

I just spent some time searching the USPS website, and I've had no luck finding it, but I'm positive that media mail is exempt from the "mail-it-in-person" rule.

I did find out that book manuscripts qualify as media mail.

For about 2 years, Hubby has been selling books and music on-line, and he has dealt with 4 or 5 different post offices (granted, all in the same county of NY), and has never had a problem mailing a package that weighs over a pound in a mail box.

Apparently, this rule started as a result of the Unabomber. One postal worker explained that the in-person rule doesn't apply to media mail as it is not shipped by plane. She then (jokingly, I hope) said that it's more expensive to lose a pilot than a truck driver.

It might be worth calling your postmaster, or spending some time on the website. (Be warned: Postal Regulations do not make for interesting reading!)

Good luck, and if I find more specific info, I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I think I'll stick to writing short stories!

Do you really want to mail an important manuscript by media mail? I sure wouldn't.

But here, any package of more than sixteen ounces, mailed by a private individual, media mail or not, must be taken to the post office. This does not, however, mean you have to take it yourself.

Tish Davidson · Aug 13, 2006

Can someone direct me to a site that tells you how to calculate the charges for US media mail? I always end up going to the PO, because I don't know how much postage to put on for the weight. I found the information for first class, priority, and regular packages, but not for media mail.

aruna · Aug 13, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
But what happens when you you send SASE, and the agent likes the manuscript, but ten goes through it and asks for changes here and there?

.

Can't she just write down in notes - on a separare sheet - the changes she'd like made? Or discuss on the telephone? I never used snail mail in dealings with my agent or editor. Except when I was sent the prrofs.

FloVoyager · Aug 14, 2006

The USPS web site is at www.usps.com, and for calculating media mail, try here:

http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/senditwithintheus/mediamail.htm

Edited to add:

Here's a more direct link, for media mail calculation: http://dbcalc.usps.gov/ieframe.htm

Select "Package Srvs" (toward upper right of page) and you'll get a menu that includes "Media Mail."

Cathy C · Aug 14, 2006

Yes, I'm aware that this has been going on for several years, but it's just now to the point where it's AFFECTING how things are run. The blog I referenced isn't the only place I've noticed this lately. I've been hearing about it on multiple sites and from various people. Sure, agents will continue to take the time to send the manuscript to editors via this method, but the sheer VOLUME of slush versus represented works would make in-person trips to the window almost a full-time job for a staffer/clerk, and package services often charge by weight or number of items, rather than a flat monthly fee.

Really, the purpose of this thread wasn't to debate the method of delivery, or whether an agent/editor is right or wrong to make this choice. I posted it to impress on new authors that they need to make a decision about whether to spend the money on return postage for a ms. they might not get back anyway (since not every agency blogs, but MIGHT share the opinion.)

When you're querying one or two people, it's no big deal. But it can really add up when you're sending out a couple dozen or more over the course of a year.

Christine N. · Aug 15, 2006

I actually send manuscripts by media mail all the time, James. No problems so far. As I said, I have Stamps.com. So every label I print has a tracking number on it, even the cheapy MM packages. I know when it's delivered.

I get ms's all the time send FedEx or Priority. I see the postage people spend; and I kind of feel bad because then the ms got to me fast and expensive just to sit in the pile for weeks. It's a shame, really.

If I had to mail proofs or something, that's different.

New twist to SASEs

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Cabinscribe

Often ignored by muses

blacbird

Tish Davidson

roach

annoyed and annoying

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

Fahim

Mad coder, lazy writer

Jamesaritchie

Fahim

Mad coder, lazy writer

Cabinscribe

Often ignored by muses

roach

annoyed and annoying

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

Tish Davidson

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover