Seven Basic Story Plots

I just read that there are two plots in the world...

The quest and new guy in town

10000

If in doubt, google:

http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=210539

(Worth reading the whole post - they offer 2 versions of the 7 different plots)

Let's see...

Man vs Man

Man vs Nature

Man vs himself

And those slight shoot offs:

Man vs god

Nature vs Nature

Man vs woman

huh...that's only six.

You're fogetting "Man versus Mutant Dinosaurs."

I was taught there were 3.
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Nature
Man vs Hisself.

Where did the other 4 come from? Granted I was taught by Pindar, so maybe they've created a few since then.

I'm certain Uncle Jim covered these in his Learn Writing thread. Of course, I can't find it now...

Not the "7 plots" but have you looked at Lester Dent's Masterplot? Here's a link:

http://www.miskatonic.org/dent.html

Shadow_Ferret said:

I was taught there were 3.
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Nature
Man vs Hisself.

Where did the other 4 come from? Granted I was taught by Pindar, so maybe they've created a few since then.

Click to expand...

Add man versus God and you really have all the basic plots.

It's all in how you dice the apple.

The 36 Plots by Loren Miller

1. Supplication - Persecutor, Suppliant, a Power in Authority
2. Deliverance - Unfortunates, Threatener, Rescuer
3. Revenge - Avenger, Criminal
4. Vengeance by Family upon Family - Avenging Kinsman, Guilty Kinsman, Relative
5. Pursuit - Fugitive from Punishment, Pursuer
6. Victim of Cruelty or Misfortune - Unfortunates, Master or Unlucky Person
7. Disaster - Vanquished Power, Victorious Power or Messenger
8. Revolt - Tyrant, Conspirator(s)
9. Daring Enterprise - Bold Leader, Goal, Adversary
10. Abduction - Abductor, Abducted, Guardian
11. Enigma - Interrogator, Seeker, Problem
12. Obtaining - Two or more Opposing Parties, Object, maybe an Arbitrator
13. Familial Hatred - Two Family Members who hate each other
14. Familial Rivalry - Preferred Kinsman, Rejected Kinsman, Object
15. Murderous Adultery - Two Adulterers, the Betrayed
16. Madness - Madman, Victim
17. Fatal Imprudence - Imprudent person, Victim or lost object
18. Involuntary Crimes of Love - Lover, Beloved, Revealer
19. Kinsman Kills Unrecognised Kinsman - Killer, Unrecognised Victim, Revealer
20. Self Sacrifice for an Ideal - Hero, Ideal, Person or Thing Sacrificed
21. Self Sacrifice for Kindred - Hero, Kinsman, Person or Thing Sacrificed
22. All Sacrificed for Passion - Lover, Object of Passion, Person or Thing Sacrificed
23. Sacrifice of Loved Ones - Hero, Beloved Victim, Need for Sacrifice
24. Rivalry Between Superior and Inferior - Superior, Inferior, Object
25. Adultery - Deceived Spouse, Two Adulterers
26. Crimes of Love - Lover, Beloved, theme of Dissolution
27. Discovery of Dishonor of a Loved One - Discoverer, Guilty One
28. Obstacles to Love - Two Lovers, Obstacle
29. An Enemy Loved - Beloved Enemy, Lover, Hater
30. Ambition - An Ambitious Person, Coveted Thing, Adversary
31. Conflict with a God - Mortal, Immortal
32. Mistaken Jealousy - Jealous One, Object of Jealousy, Supposed Accomplice, Author of Mistake
33. Faulty Judgment - Mistaken One, Victim of Mistake, Author of Mistake, Guilty Person
34. Remorse - Culprit, Victim, Interrogator
35. Recovery of a Lost One - Seeker, One Found
36. Loss of Loved Ones - Kinsman Slain, Kinsman Witness, Executioner

I think the list is comprised of plot devices, all of which can be used in one of four plot categories:
Man aganist God
Man against Nature
Man against Self
Man against Man

BTW, long before Miller's time, Gozzi (1921) created the prescursor to the list above and called it, "The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations." (book by the same title.)

Jaws

Fight Club

The Cannonball Run

Simple!

Years back some *bleep* told me that by way of a put-down to my budding writing career. She threw it out in an off-hand manner, as though she had all the answers and getting published wasn't all THAT hard, blah-blah-blah.

Well, I've got a buncha books in print and she doesn't.

Ignore lists. Just write well and sell.

Gil, if it wasn't for all the lists and books on writing, I would never have known how many rules I broke in route to selling my first book.

smiley10000 said:

I just read that there are two plots in the world...

The quest and new guy in town

Click to expand...

I know a novelist who says something similar:

1) Someone goes on a journey, and
2) A stranger comes to town.

He then adds that these are the same story told from different points of view...so there is only one plot.

There is also "20 Master Plots" (Ronald Tobias) and another system that has 54.

This kind of stuff is amusing, but I'm with Gillhoughly--it's also kinda useless.

=========
PS Don't forget "Man vs Publishing Industry."

UrsusMinor said:

I know a novelist who says something similar:

1) Someone goes on a journey, and
2) A stranger comes to town.

Click to expand...

I wouldn;t consider either of these a plot. The plot is the confict that arises when the stranger comes to town, or the conflict thperson finds when he leaves town, both of which will fall under the four basic plots.

And what about all the stories where a stranger doesn't come to town, and no one leaves leaves town?

I think the most important thing about plots is to understand that all plots are pretty much meaningless. Writers do not sell plots, they sell stories, and plots and stories are very different things.

A good story can sell a lousy plot, but even the best plot won't sell a bad story.

Well when you think about it, humans only come in three flavors: Male, Female and Hermaphrodite.

But look at how different we all are from each other?

Sure, plots can be boiled down to a simple list of distinctions, but it's the flavor and spices that you boil it with that make up the meal.

Jamesaritchie said:

Add man versus God and you really have all the basic plots.

Click to expand...

I think man vs. God can be lumped in with man vs. nature
When I heard this there were only those three.

jbal said:

I think man vs. God can be lumped in with man vs. nature
When I heard this there were only those three.

Click to expand...

Well, there were four when I first heard them. That was forty years ago, and I've read it in books older than that. And four is what we were taught in college back in the late seventies.

I suppose it depends on whether you think God and nature are the same thing. I wouldn't, God is at least as different from nature as is man, but that's me.

Maybe we're better off not knowing for sure.

Jamesaritchie said:

I suppose it depends on whether you think God and nature are the same thing. I wouldn't, God is at least as different from nature as is man, but that's me.

Click to expand...

We should probably not have this conversation.

LOL, I blogged about this, day before yesterday. In my blog post, I included this great link from The Straight Dope:

What Are the Seven Basic Literary Plots?

Read it, but don't weep. Laugh.

I'm going to read the above link, but in school, I was taught that there are four basic types of conflict (not four plots)

man vs. man (this includes man vs. himself)
man vs. nature
man vs. God
man vs. supernatural (this includes mutant dinosaurs

Entertaining link. I've now read it.

Plot

Soccer Mom said:

I'm going to read the above link, but in school, I was taught that there are four basic types of conflict (not four plots)

man vs. man (this includes man vs. himself)
man vs. nature
man vs. God
man vs. supernatural (this includes mutant dinosaurs

Entertaining link. I've now read it.

Click to expand...

Conflict is plot.

I always though plot was what happened in the story. The plot is the series of events that builds the story. Conflict is what drives the series of events. Opposing forces want different things and the push and shove makes things happen. But maybe that is a simplistic view on my part.

For three seven, who wrote:

Jaws

Fight Club

The Cannonball Run

Simple!

I read 2-3 books per week, avg, alternating between classics, educational and guilty pleasure, and I tried Fight Club (as well as his book with the dead bird on the cover) and I KNOW it's just a matter of taste but I just don't see the base of Chuck, its size and intensity. The one with the guy in the stockades? I liked that one, but Fight Club I thought "just OK" although I'm in a minority and it did break him in a big way. And the bird one? Lost interest.

Now, Cannonball Run? I understand. Not a fan, but I understand its appeal to the masses (see Gene Wilders speech to Sheriff Bart on the "rurals" after he went out for a morning stroll).

On Benchley - I'm talkin with the mom last week, lamenting the sad but usually true fact that if a new writer doesn't kick some *** with his first effort it becomes even more difficult with his second effort. She says, "Not true, Peter Benchley told me he didn't do too well with his first book, but he was able to find success with his next book."
I explained that those were different times in the pub biz, and corrected her - "You mean you read somewhere that Benchley said that."
And she corrected me - "No, he told me. I had lunch with him a couple times" which had me asking how that little detail escaped any previous conversations we've had over the course of, you know - life.
Turns out he was a regular patient at the doctors office she worked at, and he liked to take the staff out to lunch on occasion. Nice guy (although the Hooper and Brody's wife part was a stretch for me).

For Leoni - I think Kipling was referring to porn plots.
And the line "there is only one plot - stuff happens" - pretty funny.