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06-14-2006, 08:16 PM Puddle Jumper
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First or Third person?
Does anyone else struggle between the two? I prefer third person to have the ability to not just follow one character around but to be able to jump to another scene where that character is not involved. However there are times when I want it to sound like the main character is narrating.
Can you write in a way that the main character is narrating from an omniscient perspective? As though they're looking back on their life thus they have more information about what went on that just their own personal drama?
Puddle Jumper
06-14-2006, 08:57 PM LeeFlower vbmenu_register("postmenu_647187", true);
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My old writing prof used to call this "psychic distance." It's how close or far away the narrator is from the protagonist's head, and third person omniscient is where it's most variable/hard to control (obviously with first person and third person detatched, it's static. But that leads to a whole different set of problems). I'm pretty bad at it myself.
There are a few tv shows where the narrator is looking back at the past and shows us things they weren't there for (Titus and The Wonder Years spring to mind), so it can obviously be done. MZB's Mists of Avalon had a lot of that, especially in the beginning.
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06-14-2006, 09:14 PM chaostitan vbmenu_register("postmenu_647216", true);
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The first novel I wrote was written in first person. There was never any question of the POV for that story, and it served it best.
The funny thing is, I tend to shy away from first person books. I suppose it's because I like seeing multiple perspectives on situations. Dunno. But I have read some amazing first person novels, so nothing against them.
For all of my most recent manuscripts, I have gone with third person. I like to have multiple POV narrators throughout the novel, rather than sticking with just one character. Of course, the scope of these novels are different than that of my very first.
I've heard stories of novelists changing POV halfway through (or all the way through) the manuscript. <shudder> I couldn't imagine it.
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06-14-2006, 09:22 PM Josie vbmenu_register("postmenu_647228", true);
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My first novel was in third person pov, both the hero and the heroine. I guess it was a category romance, though a little unusual.
My second completed novel was in first person pov, only the heroine, no one else, a paranormal mystery/chicklit.
My third novel started as a short story, and developed into a novel which I'm going to edit a lot. It's first person pov. The heroine. Maybe I'll give it another first person pov.
Anyway now I'm working on first person pov, which is a novella, but have finished another long short story which is third person pov.
My reason for switching is I don't want to get used to just one particular way of writing pov. I like the idea of third person because it shows the scenes from a different pov.
Eventually I'd like to try a little something "off the wall"....look Ma, I can fly!!!
Anyway, I love the idea...
Cheers
Last edited by Josie : 06-14-2006 at 09:24 PM.
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06-14-2006, 09:31 PM Gillhoughly vbmenu_register("postmenu_647248", true);
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You use whichever POV works the best for telling the story.
Nearly all my books are in 1st person since I like being able to feel the character's sweat. (Sort of!) I've done 3rd, but it some practice to get the hang of it. A great help was to read writers who are very good with 3rd person and study how they did it.
I have changed viewpoints within a book with some success. The MC was 1st person, but when I needed a "meanwhile, in another part of the castle" 3rd person scene, I made a clear break, headed the new section with the name of the new VP character, and went on with the story. It worked, but then I had some 18 novels behind me, so I kinda knew what I was doing.
My WIP does the same thing, MC 1st person, the main supporting character is 3rd person. I was going to have him in 1st as well, but beta readers--and the character himself--said that 3rd would spare the reader some confusion.
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06-14-2006, 09:57 PM Glenda vbmenu_register("postmenu_647329", true);
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I do third person. It is easier for me than first person. That way I can show what everyone is thinking instead of just one person.
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06-15-2006, 06:08 AM three seven vbmenu_register("postmenu_647772", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaostitan
I've heard stories of novelists changing POV halfway through (or all the way through) the manuscript. <shudder> I couldn't imagine it.
It sounds like a horrible idea, but the one time I've actually encountered it - in Stephen King's Christine - it worked just fine. He divided the book into three parts and switched from 1st to 3rd for the middle part, during which the MC was laid up in hospital. It allowed King to fully build on the emotional element of the story, and show us all the action we'd thereby traditionally have missed out on.
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06-15-2006, 06:12 AM KTC vbmenu_register("postmenu_647777", true);
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I prefer reading and writing in first person. I feel more connected to a main character that way. Easier for me to walk through a book as one of the characters. (Maybe it's the actor in me?)
I think it's all up to personal choice. I've read great books in both first and third person.
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06-15-2006, 06:32 AM bsolah vbmenu_register("postmenu_647796", true);
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There's been a lot of thought in my own head and on this very board about POV. Usually, I'm a Third Person writer, mainly because I feel it's the 'standard' POV, and in the horror genre especially, First Person doesn't seem as favoured. I do, however, find I write better in First Person, but there are some aspects of it I don't like and I feel a lot of the time it can't make a story whole.
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06-15-2006, 06:50 AM janetbellinger vbmenu_register("postmenu_647810", true);
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I wrote my first novel in first person and I'm having trouble marketing it. I don't know if it has anything to do with POV. I am not about to change it though. I've written my other two novels in third person though.
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06-15-2006, 07:15 AM Garpy vbmenu_register("postmenu_647825", true);
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You can get right inside the head of any character you want in 3rd person, using the following tricks. I'm sure there are other handy ways, but these two usually get me close enough:
1) a character diary, or memoire. In my latest book 'ELLIE QUIN', it's 3rd POV, but the MC, Ellie, records her most intimate thoughts into a dictaphone.
2) Head hopping: mention the character you're hopping into, and then you can for example italicise their thoughts eg:
Mark shook his head with disgust as he stared at the chaotic scene in front of him.
My God, those damned kids of mine have really trashed the garage this time.
He decided they were going to clear this mess up right now, or it was going to be no TV for a week. He grinned.
Yeah, that should do it.
He headed towards the back door, getting ready to drop that bombshell on the little buggers.
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06-15-2006, 07:20 AM bsolah vbmenu_register("postmenu_647829", true);
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Yeah, I've been thinking of doing a diary thing for a few of my works. A lot of the time they seem a bit cliche though, but I think they're more suited to historical settings.
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06-15-2006, 12:20 PM Josie vbmenu_register("postmenu_648299", true);
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I love thrillers, or whatever they're called. Also I love paranormal romance chicklit too. hee hee.....eeewwww no accounting for some people's taste.
Garpy, I like the looks of your novel, the one about what would have happened if the Nazis had won the war. Scary. I'm going to look for it.
In my own recent wip which is a romantic suspense (I think) I have first person for the heroine and her alter ego is talking to her like a leprachaun sitting on her shoulder at times...a very pushy little woman...
I don't writer thrillers--yet, but enjoy many when I have time. Robert B. Parker has a new series with a main character, Jesse Stone, a worn out but sensitive guy(yeah right)...at least I think so. I wonder if it's categorized as a crime thriller. I don't know about labels too much...
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06-15-2006, 12:25 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_648310", true);
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I really like both. I don't have a preference, I just go for whichever one the story seems to demand. Recently, it's been a fair amount of third person, but I suspect I have a first-person short story coming up pretty soon.
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06-15-2006, 12:59 PM JenBarber vbmenu_register("postmenu_648381", true);
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I prefer to read third person and write first person- go figure.
This guy in my writing group really has the close third POV mastered. I love reading his work.
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06-15-2006, 01:00 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_648384", true);
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First person has a whole big set of rules and tricks (well...'rules' and 'tricks'...) that third person doesn't. Third person has a different set. I find it very interesting, and a nice change of pace, sometimes.
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06-15-2006, 01:58 PM MikeAngel vbmenu_register("postmenu_648535", true);
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My four novels are first person, but then PI mysteries are usually first person (a notable exception being The Maltese Falcon). My 80+ short stories are mostly third person, but some of the published ones are first.
The limitations of 1st person (showing only what the protag knows) are easily overcome by having other characters inform.
I've never understood why either POV is difficult for some. 2nd seems awkward, so I've avoided it. Some shorts are more immediate in present tense, either 1st or 3rd. Omniscient simply feels silly when I've tried it.
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06-15-2006, 05:42 PM chaostitan vbmenu_register("postmenu_649019", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by three seven
It sounds like a horrible idea, but the one time I've actually encountered it - in Stephen King's Christine - it worked just fine. He divided the book into three parts and switched from 1st to 3rd for the middle part, during which the MC was laid up in hospital. It allowed King to fully build on the emotional element of the story, and show us all the action we'd thereby traditionally have missed out on.
Whoops! Sorry, three seven. I realize I wasn't clear when I had to go back to my own post to remember what I'd written.
I meant that I'd heard of novelists, having completed the writing of their novel, going back to completely change the POV (from first to third, or vice versa).
I haven't read Christine, but I have read other novels where the POV changes in different sections of the book. An example escapes me, but if I think of one....
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06-15-2006, 05:44 PM three seven vbmenu_register("postmenu_649021", true);
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First or Third person?
Does anyone else struggle between the two? I prefer third person to have the ability to not just follow one character around but to be able to jump to another scene where that character is not involved. However there are times when I want it to sound like the main character is narrating.
Can you write in a way that the main character is narrating from an omniscient perspective? As though they're looking back on their life thus they have more information about what went on that just their own personal drama?
Puddle Jumper
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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My old writing prof used to call this "psychic distance." It's how close or far away the narrator is from the protagonist's head, and third person omniscient is where it's most variable/hard to control (obviously with first person and third person detatched, it's static. But that leads to a whole different set of problems). I'm pretty bad at it myself.
There are a few tv shows where the narrator is looking back at the past and shows us things they weren't there for (Titus and The Wonder Years spring to mind), so it can obviously be done. MZB's Mists of Avalon had a lot of that, especially in the beginning.
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Not the main course.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The first novel I wrote was written in first person. There was never any question of the POV for that story, and it served it best.
The funny thing is, I tend to shy away from first person books. I suppose it's because I like seeing multiple perspectives on situations. Dunno. But I have read some amazing first person novels, so nothing against them.
For all of my most recent manuscripts, I have gone with third person. I like to have multiple POV narrators throughout the novel, rather than sticking with just one character. Of course, the scope of these novels are different than that of my very first.
I've heard stories of novelists changing POV halfway through (or all the way through) the manuscript. <shudder> I couldn't imagine it.
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My first novel was in third person pov, both the hero and the heroine. I guess it was a category romance, though a little unusual.
My second completed novel was in first person pov, only the heroine, no one else, a paranormal mystery/chicklit.
My third novel started as a short story, and developed into a novel which I'm going to edit a lot. It's first person pov. The heroine. Maybe I'll give it another first person pov.
Anyway now I'm working on first person pov, which is a novella, but have finished another long short story which is third person pov.
My reason for switching is I don't want to get used to just one particular way of writing pov. I like the idea of third person because it shows the scenes from a different pov.
Eventually I'd like to try a little something "off the wall"....look Ma, I can fly!!!
Anyway, I love the idea...
Cheers
Last edited by Josie : 06-14-2006 at 09:24 PM.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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You use whichever POV works the best for telling the story.
Nearly all my books are in 1st person since I like being able to feel the character's sweat. (Sort of!) I've done 3rd, but it some practice to get the hang of it. A great help was to read writers who are very good with 3rd person and study how they did it.
I have changed viewpoints within a book with some success. The MC was 1st person, but when I needed a "meanwhile, in another part of the castle" 3rd person scene, I made a clear break, headed the new section with the name of the new VP character, and went on with the story. It worked, but then I had some 18 novels behind me, so I kinda knew what I was doing.
My WIP does the same thing, MC 1st person, the main supporting character is 3rd person. I was going to have him in 1st as well, but beta readers--and the character himself--said that 3rd would spare the reader some confusion.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I do third person. It is easier for me than first person. That way I can show what everyone is thinking instead of just one person.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaostitan
I've heard stories of novelists changing POV halfway through (or all the way through) the manuscript. <shudder> I couldn't imagine it.
It sounds like a horrible idea, but the one time I've actually encountered it - in Stephen King's Christine - it worked just fine. He divided the book into three parts and switched from 1st to 3rd for the middle part, during which the MC was laid up in hospital. It allowed King to fully build on the emotional element of the story, and show us all the action we'd thereby traditionally have missed out on.
My limbs are like palm trees
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Swaying in the breeze
Posts: 4,279
I prefer reading and writing in first person. I feel more connected to a main character that way. Easier for me to walk through a book as one of the characters. (Maybe it's the actor in me?)
I think it's all up to personal choice. I've read great books in both first and third person.
__________________
Enter the 1st Annual Writing Fairy Humor Writing Contest! Entry Fee is $10 CDN. Deadline: Nov. 13th. Prizes are $500, $250 and $125. Details: www.thewritingfairy.com
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Horror writer and Socialist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 204
There's been a lot of thought in my own head and on this very board about POV. Usually, I'm a Third Person writer, mainly because I feel it's the 'standard' POV, and in the horror genre especially, First Person doesn't seem as favoured. I do, however, find I write better in First Person, but there are some aspects of it I don't like and I feel a lot of the time it can't make a story whole.
__________________
Benjamin Solah, benjaminsolah.com
"People want to know why I do this, why I write such gross stuff. I like to tell them I have the heart of a small boy... and I keep it in a jar on my desk." - Stephen King.
2006 Rejection pledge - 1/4
Board fanatic
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I wrote my first novel in first person and I'm having trouble marketing it. I don't know if it has anything to do with POV. I am not about to change it though. I've written my other two novels in third person though.
__________________
Janet
Alex Scarrow (writer)
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Posts: 230
You can get right inside the head of any character you want in 3rd person, using the following tricks. I'm sure there are other handy ways, but these two usually get me close enough:
1) a character diary, or memoire. In my latest book 'ELLIE QUIN', it's 3rd POV, but the MC, Ellie, records her most intimate thoughts into a dictaphone.
2) Head hopping: mention the character you're hopping into, and then you can for example italicise their thoughts eg:
Mark shook his head with disgust as he stared at the chaotic scene in front of him.
My God, those damned kids of mine have really trashed the garage this time.
He decided they were going to clear this mess up right now, or it was going to be no TV for a week. He grinned.
Yeah, that should do it.
He headed towards the back door, getting ready to drop that bombshell on the little buggers.
__________________
...On 30th April, 1945 the allies secretly surrendered to Germany - six hours later the surrender was withdrawn...
'A Thousand Suns' by Alex Scarrow, OUT NOW in hardback (in the UK) (Amazon #5.99)
You are cordially invited to www.scarrow.co.uk
Horror writer and Socialist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 204
Yeah, I've been thinking of doing a diary thing for a few of my works. A lot of the time they seem a bit cliche though, but I think they're more suited to historical settings.
__________________
Benjamin Solah, benjaminsolah.com
"People want to know why I do this, why I write such gross stuff. I like to tell them I have the heart of a small boy... and I keep it in a jar on my desk." - Stephen King.
2006 Rejection pledge - 1/4
Board fanatic
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 128
I love thrillers, or whatever they're called. Also I love paranormal romance chicklit too. hee hee.....eeewwww no accounting for some people's taste.
Garpy, I like the looks of your novel, the one about what would have happened if the Nazis had won the war. Scary. I'm going to look for it.
In my own recent wip which is a romantic suspense (I think) I have first person for the heroine and her alter ego is talking to her like a leprachaun sitting on her shoulder at times...a very pushy little woman...
I don't writer thrillers--yet, but enjoy many when I have time. Robert B. Parker has a new series with a main character, Jesse Stone, a worn out but sensitive guy(yeah right)...at least I think so. I wonder if it's categorized as a crime thriller. I don't know about labels too much...
Cow in the Sky with Diamonds
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Posts: 2,520
I really like both. I don't have a preference, I just go for whichever one the story seems to demand. Recently, it's been a fair amount of third person, but I suspect I have a first-person short story coming up pretty soon.
__________________
____________________________________________
-Pete Tzinski
NOVEL DEATHMATCH, the FIRST![FONT="]
SPOOKYWRITER[/FONT]
VS
[FONT="]PEEDEE
[/FONT][FONT="](6-28: 2,339 words)[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
WHO WILL FINISH THEIR WORK FIRST?
BE THERE!
SPOOKYWRITER[/FONT]
VS
[FONT="]PEEDEE
[/FONT][FONT="](6-28: 2,339 words)[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
WHO WILL FINISH THEIR WORK FIRST?
BE THERE!
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I prefer to read third person and write first person- go figure.
This guy in my writing group really has the close third POV mastered. I love reading his work.
__________________
<>Jennifer
There is no turning back now.
I took The 2006 Rejection Pledge. 4/25
Cow in the Sky with Diamonds
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Right behind you. Don't look. Seriously.
Posts: 2,520
First person has a whole big set of rules and tricks (well...'rules' and 'tricks'...) that third person doesn't. Third person has a different set. I find it very interesting, and a nice change of pace, sometimes.
__________________
____________________________________________
-Pete Tzinski
NOVEL DEATHMATCH, the FIRST![FONT="]
SPOOKYWRITER[/FONT]
VS
[FONT="]PEEDEE
[/FONT][FONT="](6-28: 2,339 words)[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
WHO WILL FINISH THEIR WORK FIRST?
BE THERE!
SPOOKYWRITER[/FONT]
VS
[FONT="]PEEDEE
[/FONT][FONT="](6-28: 2,339 words)[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
WHO WILL FINISH THEIR WORK FIRST?
BE THERE!
Private Eye Buff
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 176
My four novels are first person, but then PI mysteries are usually first person (a notable exception being The Maltese Falcon). My 80+ short stories are mostly third person, but some of the published ones are first.
The limitations of 1st person (showing only what the protag knows) are easily overcome by having other characters inform.
I've never understood why either POV is difficult for some. 2nd seems awkward, so I've avoided it. Some shorts are more immediate in present tense, either 1st or 3rd. Omniscient simply feels silly when I've tried it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by three seven
It sounds like a horrible idea, but the one time I've actually encountered it - in Stephen King's Christine - it worked just fine. He divided the book into three parts and switched from 1st to 3rd for the middle part, during which the MC was laid up in hospital. It allowed King to fully build on the emotional element of the story, and show us all the action we'd thereby traditionally have missed out on.
Whoops! Sorry, three seven. I realize I wasn't clear when I had to go back to my own post to remember what I'd written.
I meant that I'd heard of novelists, having completed the writing of their novel, going back to completely change the POV (from first to third, or vice versa).
I haven't read Christine, but I have read other novels where the POV changes in different sections of the book. An example escapes me, but if I think of one....
__________________
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COSTELLO: How do I turn my computer off?
ABBOTT: Click on "Start"...
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Token English villain
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Right. On that, I have no opinion.
