Resurrected: My characters are in charge

Shweta · Jul 2, 2006

Hey all,
Found this in cache, so here is is.

Serena Casey said:
Have others of you found this to be true? I often find that when I'm typing like a madwoman, the characters just start doing things, and I catch myself wondering what they're going to do next! It's like they're writing themselves. I'm not sure if that's good or bad!

Drevil915 said:
It's definitely good. It means your characters are coming to life in your head and on the page. And I love this feeling.

Gillhoughly said:
Trust me, after writing/selling 20+ books I can assure you IT'S FREAKIN' GREAT!

You want them thinking for themselves.

The Scully explanation is that your subconscious is coming through for you.

Mulder would say that you're inspired.

Don't question or second-guess, just rejoice that it's there and run with it! RUN with it!

(What gets me is my characters are...well..smarter than I am!

)

GabeWhite said:
I've had the opposite experience. Whenever my characters start acting on their own, my plot goes to hell and I hit a dead end.

The likely explanation is that the characters begin to act out when I'm unsure what they should be doing. Subconscious takes over, which is not a good thing, at least for me--They usually end up in coitus or killing each other or (worst of all) debating philosophy. And then I have to sew back the tatters and figure exactly where I stopped thinking...

-Gabe

TWK said:
I've experienced this a few times. The first time, the character did something so amazing, I shed tears of joy. I got a chill just now thinking about it! I love when characters come to life.

EDIT: I also find that when characters take over, my plot can go to pieces. That's why I almost always keep them under my control. They're my inventions, after all.

Storyteller5 said:
This happens to me and I love it! If I get to a point where I'm not sure what comes next, I feel like I need to just wait and listen to hear it. This is something that has come for me as I became a stronger writer. :nod:

Jamesaritchie said:
It's a good thing. Let your characters lead, and you just have to follow along behind and write down what they do and say.

Tracy said:
It's the best feeling in the world! Enjoy it! It is, for me at least, one of the sublime experience that make me keep doing this mad crazy occupation of being a writer. I just sit there and the story pours through my fingertips onto the keyboard without going through my conscious brain at all. Love it!

amboyle said:
Heck, it's one of the reasons I started writing! The characters definitely have a life of their own and wondering what they are going to do next makes writing fun. It's like having a movie playing in my head--I watch the movie, then write about it.

Bufty said:
It's a heck of a lot easier listening to them than trying to tell them what to do.

Branwyn said:
It's amazing! I never understood when I'd read other authors say that same thing, until it happened to me.

seuratdeveloping said:
This is good. It means you're a secretary, in effect, to the narrator. The characters should have a life of their own. It's difficult for them to be manipulated by you when this happens. And ideally, this should happen all the time.

Serena Casey said:
Wow, guys/girls, thanks so much - that really helps. I'm glad to know it's a good thing! It really does make it exciting.
Quote:
It's a heck of a lot easier listening to them than trying to tell them what to do.
I agree!

Serena Casey · Jul 2, 2006

Thanks for posting this, Shweta!

Shweta · Jul 2, 2006

And more.

Rachael said:
I mostly let them run wild within a certain set of boundaries, even if it ends up changing my plot. For instance, one of my MC's was vehement that he would not, could not be the antagonist. Here's our conversation:

Me: But you HAVE to be my antagonist! I picked you to be the bad guy.

Antonio: But I love her. I can't kidnap her and torture her like you want me to! Make me the Latino ex-boyfriend she runs away with after leaving her fiance at the altar instead.

Me: You're kidding!

Antonio: She wants it, too. Just ask her for herself.

Me: Do you seriously want to run away with Antonio?

Her: Yes! I've been wanting to since you created me.

Me: Alright, fine. He can protect you from some anonymous stalker who hates you for testifying against him in court. Or something. But you two have to be chaperoned! I want a good seven or eight agents in the penthouse with you two at all times.

Them: Okay.

Zolah said:
I saw a documentary about this recently. It was investigating the phenomena of 'voices in the head' experienced by the religiously inspired, the mentally ill and - yes, you guessed it - writers.

It basically said that everyone builds 'models' of other personalities in their psyche in order to understand other people. These models allow us to be a part of relationships and predict how others will react to our actions. It's a survival technique, and those who are unable to do it become sociopaths because they lack the ability to create any model which reacts differently from them - they can't understand or empathise with others.

The experts featured stated that in rare cases some people have the gift (or curse) of being able to create models so real that they become three-dimensional and self-sustaining - in other words, they become separate mini-personalities contained within our own. Sometimes they even become independant and 'talk' to the primary personality, resulting (in cases of severe trauma or mental instability) in multiple personality disorder or in 'religious' experiences. Or in becoming a damn good writer.

But the best part is that these mini-personalties talking can cause a feeling of ecstacy, intense euphoria, which can actually be addictive. It's believed this may have been the reason why some people (such as Joan of Arc) were convinced the experience was religious. And why so many of us keeping writing even when we can paper the bathroom with rejections, searching for that moment when the character says 'Hey - that's not how it happened!' It really is better than drugs, baby!

Rachael said:
I had a certain climactic scene all worked out, and then my MC informed me, "No, no... it happened like this."

And I recently discovered, out of the blue, that the MC in my WriMo novel for this year is actually a man, not a woman. And it's first person POV, so that was strange.

It used to scare me at first, but now I've just accepted it as a normal part of writing.

TWK said:
I don't think it's good when your characters take total control of the story. If you've outlined, have a set idea of where the story's going, I don't think they should tell you otherwise. Unless you like what they have to say.

Serena Casey said:
Very interesting, Zolah. I guess that makes sense. Rachael - loved your conversation with your MC

Quote:
I don't think it's good when your characters take total control of the story. If you've outlined, have a set idea of where the story's going, I don't think they should tell you otherwise. Unless you like what they have to say.
I agree. I do have a definite goal in mind to reach and don't let them stray too far, but they sometimes do things that I hadn't thought of consciously that add to the story. Sometimes not, and I have to delete a whole section. Good point, TWK.

smalleststar said:
Does this fit with the outline/don't outline issue? I mean, for those who like to have the characters take over, does that mean you're not big outliners?

amboyle said:
I don't outline at all. I have a starting point, then I just sit at the keyboard and let it rip. If I sit down and analyize the how's and the why's, it becomes too clinical and takes all the fun and surprise out of it.

Zolah said:
I outline, but not extensively. I put the characters somewhere and let them walk around a bit, and they make their own shapes in the environment. It goes something like:

Okay, I have this girl - she's the last scion of a murdered royal house - horribly scarred by the fire that killed her family - brought up in secret by an order of fighting holy people - she doesn't know who she is - but one day she has to find out, and then everyone expects her to save her country from oppression - so the story starts...when? When she comes of age and finds out who she is. But what about before that? How do we get to know her? How about she falls in love? Okay, she meets this guy...hey, he could be one of the people who are oppressing the heroine's country. But he's different - or - maybe this other race don't MEAN to be oppressors, they think they're helping, or they're just desperate themselves...yeah. And he's really a decent guy...so even though they're natural enemies she can't help liking him, and she's torn, especially later when she finds out it's supposed to be her job to get rid of him and his people. So how do they meet? What links them? How about I shift the balance of power, and have HIM in danger and HER save him...and what if that sets off a chain reaction that ends in the heroine's home, her sanctuary, the holy place where she grew up, being destroyed, just as she finds out who she is? Then what will she do? What'll HE do?

It's like stream of consciousness. That section above is taken almost word for word from my notebook. I don't know how anything will actually be written, what form many of the events will take, but I do know my characters and how all the events fit together into a story.

Where it gets rough is when, say, the character whom I earmarked for a traitor, suddenly turns out to be way too honourable to actually betray her people. I try to make her, but the scenes are not right, it doesn't work, anyone who reads it won't believe it, etc. Then I have to look at my outline and realise that the last bit before the climax, where the traitor gets executed and it breaks my heroine's heart and she turns on her lover in her suffering and ends up putting him in danger, actually needs to be something else.

But the something else has to fit with the climax (where the heroine challenges the King of her enemies to a duel of Kingship in order to save her country) and everything else that's gone before, and also link into the themes I have running (there are no real 'bad guys' in life, sometimes you have to let go in order to survive, and love is stronger than anything). So I have the 'traitor' willing to sacrifice herself to save the heroine in the end, and instead of the heroine's lover being in danger it's the not-traitor, forcing the heroine to make a similar choice, which is actually better since it's much less predictable.

Simon Woodhouse said:
I'm in two minds on this. If I've outlined a plot, and I like it, then that's the path I want the characters to take. My plot outlines contain very few specific details, so how the characters do the things I want them to is dictated by their personalities, but I don't let them run wild. I do like it though, when I write a piece of dialogue, re-read it, and realise it's not the sort of thing a particular character would say.

Even with character and plot outlines created before hand, I usually find there's some big discrepancies by the end of the first draft. But that's ok, because those all get ironed out during the re-writes, which is also when the characters start to become stronger and more distinct. This is probably because I've spent more time writing them by then, and so there's a greater degree of familiarity. I guess, just like real people, characters take a while to get to know.

DebbieOhi said:
I love it when my characters try to take over the story, but I do keep a reign on how much I let them.

A related cartoon I did a while back when this happened:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/debbieo...in/set-444070/

Debbie

Branwyn said:
I have an outline but sometimes there are detours. My MC was to be happily married, but when another male character was introduced there was chemistry between them. It became evident in the dialogue. I think that's when I realized I had to take me out of the story and let them tell theirs.

PeeDee said:
THe first time my characters thought for themselves, a long time ago, I had two characters who were supposed to die, so the third could escape and continue on the storyline.

....except they were more resourceful than I thought, and I watched with mounting panic as they all survived and went somewhere completely different.

I was too inexperienced to cope, and it broke my story.

More recently, another example: In my current novel, I wanted my main character to say one line. "Like Fern Gully from hell." That was it. Very simple, but I really wanted it. Except when the situation arose for it, he didn't say it. He had a lot of other stuff on his mind.

Disheartened, I realized I had a similar scene coming up with the main female character, and she could say it, and I would get my line. That scene got written, and she turned out to be this solid, intimidating, unflappable woman who would deeply intimidate me in real life. And she didn't say it.

What can I do? I told my wife the line, and I gave up on it.

I love it when characters take over. It's wonderful, and it's good for the story, and good for you as the story's first reader.

Snitchcat said:
Always.

I've also found that since I've started using outlines, the characters are far more likely to go where I need them to go, without resenting me for it. They also get sidetracked. But I don't mind; with the outline there, they usually get back to what they're meant to be doing.

This is a good thing -- it means not struggling so much with the story and the characters. And it also means that the story is 'alive' -- a much more engaging read for readers.

Doctor Shifty said:
I've also found that the character can get me out of trouble, or at least imagined trouble.

When I am writing myself into an impossible situation and am telling myself "By the end of this page you are going to be in strife", it is the character who is already sorting out the difficulty so that by the time I get to the crisis point the mind of the character is revealing the solution to me.

I guess it's saying the same thing as "My character writes for me but doesn't always tell me where he's going, so it looks like a blind canyon up ahead but he knows this tricky secret exit."

Kim

Rod Munch said:
If my characters want to tell their story, I just get out of their way and let them get on with it. They're in charge.

moblues said:
I just use a thin, basic outline. The characters are going to take over anyway, so I never fight it. The last thing I want is for my characters to rebel and fight me with something like this:

"You want me to do what? Have you not been paying attention, keyboard boy? My character would never do that. Time for more coffee. We'll talk later."

Or this:

"How could you make me kiss that pig? I think you need help, Mike."

Use whatever works for you.

Mike

Rachael said:
I often stay up late writing just to 'see how they're going to get out of this mess'.

Taurus Rising said:
I call it a good thing unless they're taking the story where you don't want it to go. I've had some of my characters take over the writing and move the story where I didn't expect it to go, but it's still going where I want it to go. They're just getting there by an unexpected route.

So hold on loosely (let the characters run wild), but don't let go (don't let them go down a story killing dead end). Who knew .38 Special would come up as writing advice?!

smalleststar said:
I think this has been (must have been) covered before here, but it seems that for some writers the first draft fills the same function the outline does for a different type of writer? Is that right?

It seems to me that for all writers, the story unfolds out of yourself; there's a strange blend of inside/outside as the story is created out of you into something independent. Sometimes it's like watching a film, sometimes the story comes as words into your head. But for me, I do all the watching and notetaking a long time in advance of the actual writing. I brew the story up, worry away at faults in the plot, knit up the backstory and psychological links between my characters, imagine the scenes, research the information... By the time I come to write it, I'd be dismayed if my characters started careering off independently. Of course, they produce dialogue and actions, scene by scene, but they don't charge off to do something utterly unexpected.

It would make an interesting study for someone to examine the differences between pre-planner writers and first draft-explorer writers. I'm no expert (for sure) but I would hypothesise that there's no difference in the quality/type of fiction produced, but that there are personality differences between the two groups of writers. What do you think?

Popeyesays said:
But you have to look at it twice. Sometimes when the characters re-construct your plot, it's because someone needs to.

I storyboard rather than outline partly for this reason. My mindset on a storyboard is more flexible and the method is more easily adjustable.

Regards,
Scott

Jewel101 said:
oh yea, my characters are in charge alright! But they like so so everything goes smoothly. Except when one of them walked away from the story. I didn't want him to, but he explained to me that if they go with the caravan, he has to leave because it would mean the end of the his race if he didn't. Unfortunately, i couldn't take a different path to keep him because the book had told them to go and one of my MCs will meet the love of his life there. so i let him go and he promised me he'd show up in the second book.

Another depressing turn of events was when my other male MC decided to die to save the woman he loves. I didn't expect to kill off any characters but he imformed me that there is no way he's going to let her die. Unfortunately i can't simply opt out on her dying because there would have been no way for her to survive that situation that develops, especially when her death would clear out all the bad guys. So now my MC is going to die to save my other MC who wasn't supposed to die in the first place. But then that MC told me to write a book to bring him back

so you see, even though refused to follow the plot and ended in tears, they promised me things that would keep me happy. See what i mean about them liking me?

Rachael said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays
Sometimes when the characters re-construct your plot, it's because someone needs to.

Amen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewel101
Another depressing turn of events was when my other male MC decided to die to save the woman he loves. I didn't expect to kill off any characters but he imformed me that there is no way he's going to let her die. Unfortunately i can't simply opt out on her dying because there would have been no way for her to survive that situation that develops, especially when her death would clear out all the bad guys. So now my MC is going to die to save my other MC who wasn't supposed to die in the first place. But then that MC told me to write a book to bring him back

You're kidding! Antonio told me the exact same thing, shortly after he told me he wasn't going to be my bad guy. And it works out so well, because his jealous ex-girlfriend tries to kill the woman he's in love with now, but she ends up killing him (who she wants to fall in love with her once my MC is out of the way) and herself. Talk about irony, eh?

Patricia · Jul 3, 2006

I'm glad I took the time to read this, this time around! I'm having the experience now. My characters are ruling me.

One of my hero’s was to die according to the original plot. He's begging me not to kill him off because he loves the MC and both the MC (she) and I are in love with him!

He's so cool. But, in order for the plot to play out to the ultimate end, he must go. His demise has hindered the finish of my novel. Suddenly last week the whole plot rather formulated again on its own and I've been typing like mad. I love it. As soon as I get rid of him and the antagonist, our lady can go on to LHEA.

Evaine · Jul 3, 2006

I had a medieval murder mystery all set up. I had the body, the suspects, everything I needed.
Then my main character arrived at the murder scene, took a look around, and "spoke directly to camera".

"Who do you think I am? Brother Cadfael?"

He had no idea how to solve the mystery I'd so carefully crafted for him, so the whole thing had to go off in a completely different direction (which actually worked a lot better).

PeeDee · Jul 3, 2006

Shweta, you're a gem. Thanks for posting all that.

This character-control stuff just happened to me again. My one fellow was supposed to go off and rescue another guy. Except that when the situation happened....he had some other stuff that was more important, and so he sent another character to do it. I didn't intend for that to happen until the very split-second when he drove the wrong way.

It works better, it clears up a knotty problem later on, and I'm happier writing it. I just didn't know I was going to be writing it.

I think it's one of my favorite things about being a writer. I've learned to trust in both my characters, and the parts of my brain that are thinking harder about it than the rest of me. Keep an eye on 'em just to be sure, but odds are, they know better than you what's going on.

Raiyah · Jul 3, 2006

My characters recently took over. It was the greatest thing ever! My book is comming along a lot better, and I feel much better about the whole thing.

I was having a lot of trouble with my main character, because she seemed to fade between the other quirky characters. And then, like magic, she spoke up about something that I hadn't planned (nor any of the other characters) and voila--she came to life! And since then, she's had a mind of her own!

bsolah · Jul 3, 2006

I want my characters to take over me. I want them to lead me. I've been in a writing slump for maybe two weeks or more. And when I get like this, I think about what's stopping me from just writing. This time I think it's my characterization. I wrote a blog post about it, a kind of therapy and hope it helps. I think I'm on the verge of coming out, with my characters dragging me kicking and screaming.

LeeFlower · Jul 3, 2006

my characters like to plug up my plotholes, so when they start taking charge, I let 'em.

Zecragon · Jul 4, 2006

Recently in the novel whose first draft I just finished, my main character took over indeed, right in the middle of a battle. There was an object mentioned in the beginning of the story, and luckily enough, they were in the same place as where the beginning took place and without me meaning it, my character takes the object (a slim metal rod) and rams it through another's back and stomach. Effective, but gory in description.

I kind of had the same thing happen earlier in the story. A character came into the story that there was no way I had planned for him to be there. Of course he was an established character, and everyone there knew of him, but he was supposed to be in training! Then I thought, 'What better training!' And that's when the plot sped up and the fighting really began.

Wonderful thing when your characters take control. It's when you can balance that while keeping your plot afloat that it's really good.

britlitfantw · Jul 5, 2006

Patricia said:
I'm glad I took the time to read this, this time around! I'm having the experience now. My characters are ruling me.

One of my hero’s was to die according to the original plot. He's begging me not to kill him off because he loves the MC and both the MC (she) and I are in love with him!

I've been having that experience as well, particularly since I began revising my fantasy novel. However, one of my MC -- I have two that constantly talk to me, for this novel -- is to die, and she refuses to let it be otherwise. The other MC pipes in and joins her in telling me that these events have all already happened to them, and all I'm doing is relating them, so I shouldn't feel guilty.

I can't help it! It is going to be a sad, sad day when this MC meets her demise ... she is much loved by both the hero and I.

I've been reading this thread, and loving it.

Resurrected: My characters are in charge

Shweta

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Serena Casey

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Shweta

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Patricia

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Evaine

PeeDee

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Raiyah

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bsolah

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LeeFlower

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Zecragon

britlitfantw