Stephen J. Rivelle's contact info

You mean author/screenwriter Stephen J. Rivelle who co-wrote NIXON with Oliver Stone? You've adapted one of his novels?

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

Yeah unfortunately it's the same guy, Stephen J. Rivele - search for his name on Google and you get a bundle of results including his filmography. Short but impressive, and becoming more so.

I'm gonna make a big assumption here, that you didn't obtain the screen rights before you wrote the adaptation? It's great that the novel inspired you, and adapting it sounds like quite a feat, but let's be real, if the author wanted it adapted then he'd probably do it himself, right?

So I guess, um, maybe there's no harm in asking, if you can find author's contact info.. but be prepared for the worst, which is that you'll never be allowed to show that script to anyone, ever. Tho' to be perfectly honest with you, I wouldn't even ask. If any of my assumptions above are wrong, so sorry.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

This has got to be a joke post, right?

It had me going there for a moment...

Please tell me this is a joke...

I don't know about the screenwriters here, but the ones at my lurk-only site include a steady stream of new arrivals who didn't realize they're not free to adapt someone else's work.

I suppose if nothing else, it's both good practice and a jolting trip to the reality of the business.

Maryn, urging the OP to write original material

Maryn said:

I don't know about the screenwriters here, but the ones at my lurk-only site include a steady stream of new arrivals who didn't realize they're not free to adapt someone else's work.

I suppose if nothing else, it's both good practice and a jolting trip to the reality of the business.

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Oh, my gosh -- that seems so odd to me... I guess I must have grown up at a time when the evils of plagiarism was pounded into one as forcefully as "eat your vegetables". I can understand the impulse that prompts the mistake -- "gee, I can adapt this!" but to actually sit down for the time it takes to write a full length screenplay is too sad. Wasted time, wasted pages, wasted creativity. And, what's worse, it can make someone (the owner of the copyright) terribly angry... Nobody is flattered by having their work stolen just like nobody's flattered by the attentions of a stalker.

Ya gotta blame the educational system if youngsters don't know this...

Sheesh, Maryn, you learn something new every day

Oh, my gosh -- that seems so odd to me... I guess I must have grown up at a time when the evils of plagiarism was pounded into one as forcefully as "eat your vegetables".

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C'mon we are not talking about plagiarism here. Remember 'plagiarism' is simply claiming someone else's work as your own - and 'Drama Writer' certainly isn't doing that. 'Drama Writer' wants to contact the original author, presumably to obtain permission.

Sure, you could argue that it was a waste of time (or a risk) to spend a lot of time and effort adapting it before getting permission, but they are trying to get it now. The technique has been successful for some - the original writer of 'Alien .v. Predator' didn't have permission for his spec script (from either owner!), but it was all worked out before the film was made. A risk? Sure. Plagiarism? Of course not! (And yes, the original screenwriter wrote a nice public letter on the web apologising for the quality of the final movie.)

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To get back to what (may be) the original problem: If you want to get permission, call the publisher's rights & acquisitions department. Some googling and phone calls will give you the number. They'll send you details of his agent.

My experience has been to send a few emails to the publisher, get ignored, then phone a few weeks later to get results.

I ended up repeating the process with the literary agent to get the author's address (the agency didn't represent the author anymore - and hadn't for about 40 years). And until I can track down the author's heirs, I've certainly toyed with adapting bits of it - and I certainly wouldn't consider myself a plagiarist.

Good luck,

Mac.
(PS: Yes, as Derek point out, the likely result is a screenplay that can't be sold, put in competitions, or really shown to anyone outside your family. Still, it was probably great practise, and since it was unlikely that someone's first screenplay would sell anyway, you might as well not waste an original storyline on it !)

If nothing else Drama Writer, it will have been good experience for you.

A company I worked for a few years back wanted to adapt an original work. The author was deceased, so we had to go through his estate to purchase a renewable option on an annual basis. There are certain procedures one has to follow in matters like this.

If this was a different author, less well known (and not a screenwriter himself), who knows, he may have been receptive to your advances. But I doubt that you'll get very far in this instance.


Although I agree with Mac - it's not plagiarism, nothing like it.

It's simply a lack of experience mixed with a fair dollop of enthusiasm. Nothing wrong with that.

For all intents and purposes, I emailed the publisher last night.

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Just curious, but what does "for all intents and purposes" mean in this sentence?

Fingers crossed, DW, but as said above, be ready for disappointment. And while you're waiting for a reply from whoever you sent the script to, keep working on your next script... and your next script... Good luck.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

Copyright law is civil law. You would get sued, not charged with a crime.

This was a genuine mistake. Fan fiction, if you will. I'd hazard a guess that the author intended showing it to no one but the writer (or his representatives) of the original work.

xhouseboy said:

Copyright law is civil law. You would get sued, not charged with a crime.

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True enough, in this case --although your generalization that copyright law is only civil is very much in error. Criminal copyright violation is very much part of the law.

If you want to be technical, sure, it's not plagiarism. It's copyright violation, which -- unlike plagiarism -- is an actual crime.

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Joe Unidos said:

True enough, in this case --although your generalization that copyright law is only civil is very much in error. Criminal copyright violation is very much part of the law.

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But not in this case. Although your first post gave the general impression that it might be regarded as such.

Perhaps you were loosely referring to the following rough example. IMO, this has no real bearing on Drama Writer's situation.

"Deliberate copyright infringement may be a criminal offence. If the copyright infringement is on a larger scale where pirate or counterfeit copies of CD's are circulating, then it is worth informing the police..... They can then decide whether action by them, including possible prosecution, is justified."

Don't get me wrong, I wish it was a criminal offence in some cases. I've worked alongside copyright organisations attempting to bring wrongdoers to admit to their indiscretions. A few of them should be behind bars, but it will never happen. It's a game of who blinks first, and who's got the deepest pockets. If the plaintiff has a cast-iron case and has the funds to go all the way, settlement is usually reached on the court steps. But the offendors rely on the plaintiff's lack of funds to go the distance, and as a result almost always get away with it.

I hear you, xhouseboy --my original post was admittedly over-simplified for effect.

My larger point being that, while clearly any legal recourse in this example is highly unlikely, there is often a misperception among new writers that such an undertaking is a bold "go-getter" move and in some perverse way admirable, as opposed to something that is both frowned upon and arguably a violation of the civil code. That's all.

People taking freedoms like that with other people's (intellectual) property rubs me the wrong way. I grate at the (often unspoken) presumption that there exists for them some "right" to adapt the material, often followed up by a foolish indignation that they --the person who took what wasn't their's-- is in some way the victim when they are told, "no, you can't copyright this, no you can't do anything with this, etc." It's the same as the well-meaning, supportive folks will tell a writer under these circumstances that even if nothing comes of it, at least they have a writing sample. They don't.

I dunno. it's a personal pet peeve of mine that I tend to blow out of proportion.

Your'e dead right, Joe.

And for what it's worth, it festers with me, too.

IP is like any other property. A burglar violates one's home and property, s/he pays the price if caught.

Someone profits from another's IP, and in a lot of cases they get away with it.

They also should pay the price if real intent can be established. Sadly, it very rarely pans out that way.

Okay, just wondering how this post turned from one writer asking for help to find contact info, and turning into a full out debate over copyright infringement.

Hes not doing anything wrong here. Hes not trying to submit it to anyone but the original author. So whats all the hub-bub about?
Hes got a tug, lets all help him reel this baby in.

Hey drama..dont know if its worth anything, but since youve already submitted it to his people, I wonder if it would be a terrible idea to take the extremely passive role right now, and offer up a collaboration with the original author.

Youve labored at this, and its off his original work, so using a reverse psychology approach to get what you want. Approaching him with the, "assist me in portraying your work as accurately as you want it" might flatter his ego some if you do meet some resistance. Dont let them shue you away now.

You got his attention, as theyre asking for the screenplay. If they like it, great..youll proceed to the next step.
The simple fact that they asked for your work means they will entertain the "right" work.
Just like an employer who looked at your resume and calls you in for an interview. Youve peeked their interest, so now its your job to NOT TAKE NO for an answer.

Whatever you have to do, alter it chop it or start again, just step aside and ride this pony, and dont let it fall into their hands so they can get some other writer to come in and adapt it.
THIS IS YOUR BABY TO GIVE AWAY....So ride it and show you are only out to give the best possible adaptation of his work...and you want his input. Flattery goes along way with the already successful.

This might be alittle redundant to state the obvious, but since the post took a turn off course I just want to keep it on track. See what happens when you mix up alot of writers in one place. AND, wanted to congradulate you on making it this far, and just reminding you, youve got your foot in the door, dont let them shut it without letting you in, okay!

Go get em!
Be a Rhino.
A smart Rhino!

Im rooting for the underdog here!!!!!!!!! GO DRAMA!!!!!!

and remember
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ R U F U S R O C K S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I don't believe it's copyright infringement unless he sells it.

Anyone can adapt another writer's work for practice. And there's no harm in showing it as a sample, providing you say it's an adaptation and credit the original writer. You just can't sell it. Another example, film companies use the music from other movies on their trailers - which they can do because it's a promotional piece and not for sale.

So, there's no monetary gain possible for DW, unless the author falls in love with the adaptation and lets him run with it. Which is highly unlikely, but....who knows?

I don't believe it's copyright infringement unless he sells it.

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Not trying to be a dick, but your belief is wrong, and is the common misconception that fuels the encouragement of this type of infringement.

While most likely no one would take legal action until it is sold, it is infringement the moment it is written. You cannot prepare a derivative work without the copyright owner's permission (unless the work has gone into the public domain). In other words, you cannot write nor exploit a screenplay based on someone else's novel unless you have obtained from them the rights. You cannot make a derivative work. Consequently, the work, if unauthorized, is copyright infringement.

Joe is completely right. That's like saying "I'll adapt this record into a cd and then acquire permissions."

All writers, but super careful of this. It is not suggested, even if drama is somehow successful with it.

Drama, if they love it and use it, great, but just beware that they have every right to stomp it down. I would not suggest being pushy or even making any offers at this point, sit back and see what they have to say.

The vast majority of sequels and adaptions are done on assignment from a production studio. Hardly any are done because an author just did it then worried about legalities. As Mac pointed out the writer of AVP could have been in serious trouble, but because he did a good enough job and worked out with both creators then he ended up being okay, but until they signed the dotted line, he was still in copyright violation.

This is a serious matter and it could ruin writer's careers if they take liberties they do not have, which is why the gravity of the posts exist.

It is also the same for writing books that are part of series. Like the Star Wars series and the Star Trek and the Conan Series. Every one of those books not written by the original author had to first be approved by that author and rights and permissions had to be obtained before it could be printed.

It's like writing your own Harry Potter book. You would need JK Rowlings permission to use her characters, settings, and everything else.

Good luck Drama, but please everyone be aware of the dangers that are involved in going this route.