HELP - NOT SURE HOW TO WRITE ...

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

I'm helping a friend design a video/dvd for her twin sisters - 50th birthday.

Names of sisters are Terry and Tracy

In the invitation, she said, "The Dynamite Duo are turning 50!" She then wrote,

T 'N T Now, in the vidoe, we're not mentioning the Dynamite thingy... but we will be using the T N T - This will be the writing on the first screen

I said, T 'n T didn't make sense... I thought since both the A and the D in And are not written, there should be a ' before and after the n like

'N'

She doesn't agree with me, but I said, I know where I can go and find out..

So, it would look like T 'N' T Maybe we should just write T & T

Can anyone help us out here?

Sandi LeFaucheur · Apr 9, 2006

I'd go for T 'N' T. You're right; you need an apostrophe on both sides of the N.

veinglory · Apr 9, 2006

Well the signs I see for this 'n that only have the one.

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

Thanks guys. But now what do I do? hahah

veinglory · Apr 9, 2006

I see both online--but at least one actual book on grammar uses the 'n form

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1878489291/104-4593303-6963149?v=glance&n=283155

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

oh, thank you, Emily. I'll check it out. My friend will be pleased to have gotten me on this one!

reph · Apr 9, 2006

Cassie, you need both apostrophes. Each one represents a missing letter.

veinglory, those signs are wrong. Sign painters and ad writers can't be trustedabout punctuation.

maestrowork · Apr 9, 2006

Does that mean it's "Rock 'n' Roll" and not "Rock 'n Roll"? I always thought it was the latter.

poetinahat · Apr 9, 2006

reph said:
veinglory, those signs are wrong. Sign painters and ad writers can't be trustedabout punctuation.

If you can't trust Krispy Kreme, whom can you trust?
(Not to mention Toys 'Я' Us)

poetinahat, who likes Maryn's salutations and has received conflicting advice on "who/whom"

veinglory · Apr 9, 2006

There is also the matter of which to go for -- most correct or most conventional. When they differ it comes down to whether you want most people to feel you have it wrong, or a few to know it for sure

poetinahat · Apr 9, 2006

In that regard, the 'n has always looked wrong to me.

But, veinglory, I take your point (even as I begin a sentence with "But").

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

Well, I've googled it and all I can find is the rule.. to use an apostrophe when one or more letter is omitted in a word, which to me, means it should be 'n' - I look at 'N and I immediately think WRONG but what does the average person think... Well, it's her sisters and so she can have it any way she wants.

Or I'll wait till she has to give this info to the video guy..next Saturday. I'll tally up the votes for 'n and 'n' and see who wins. Send everyone over hear! hahahah

reph · Apr 9, 2006

Cassie88 said:
I'll tally up the votes for 'n and 'n' and see who wins.

Majority rule doesn't govern this kind of decision. Listen to the people who know what apostrophes are for.

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

yes, reph! Believe me, I know which way I think it should be..but after bringing this up earlier today on the phone with my friend... hmmm... she was pretty sure the way she thought it should be. I can only reiterate my stance. Thanks a lot for taking the time to post!!

poetinahat · Apr 9, 2006

Or, just say "Hey, this is what's correct" (and I like the ampersand alternative) -- then let her do what she wants. No point stressing a friendship over it. It's her DVD.

Maybe explaining how the rule works will help persuade her.

Cassie88 · Apr 9, 2006

I totally agree with you. AND I did suggest we use the old & ... we don't need the dynamite duo reference. Well, I did what I said I do .. now it's her decision.

BUT

you guys don't really think I'll let her write it the wrong way, do you now?

:Lecture:

Jamesaritchie · Apr 9, 2006

veinglory said:
I see both online--but at least one actual book on grammar uses the 'n form

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1878489291/104-4593303-6963149?v=glance&n=283155

Whoever wrote "Rock 'N Learn" should never be allowed within ten thousand feet of a grammar book. It's wrong, and completely illiterate. "'n" means "an," not "and."

Whatever you see online, a missing letter must have an apostrophe.

But in this case, I see no reason to use either form. The whole thing strikes me as confusing. What's wrong with actually spelling out the words?

maestrowork · Apr 9, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
What's wrong with actually spelling out the words?

Then we'll be missing the point. Writing either "T & T" or "T and T" would be missing the point. The "dynamite" duo is called TNT -- get it?

They're doing word play here, and so the 'n' must stay. The extra aprostrophe makes it look weird.

reph · Apr 9, 2006

maestrowork said:
They're doing word play here, and so the 'n' must stay. The extra aprostrophe makes it look weird.

Yes, the N is needed for the joke. But that apostrophe isn't extra. If it looks weird to you, seeing the wrong version too many times must have muddied your judgment.

veronie · Apr 9, 2006

For trinitrotoluene, the initialism is TNT. Not T'n'T or T&T or any other version. However, since you are making a play on Terry and Tracy, You may want to go with T'n'T. I wouldn't. I'd just use TNT (for the dynamite reference) and leave it at that. I think everyone will understand the reference, especially if it is clear at the beginning of the video that TNT is referring to the two girls.

Strongbadia · Apr 11, 2006

I think you should go with Tn'T. (I assume you want to go with T and T.) n' is the accepted way to accomplish this regardless of the grammar. What you do not want to do is confuse people. For instance, look at store such as Toys R' Us. People are used to the words represented that way. This is why we go to the 10 items or less line in the store rather than the 10 items or fewer. No one really cares if it is "grammatically" incorrect to have a 10 items or less. People simply want to get the people with 500 things in their carts out of the lines.

reph · Apr 11, 2006

Strongbadia said:
No one really cares if it is "grammatically" incorrect to have a 10 items or less.

I don't believe we've met.

Strongbadia · Apr 11, 2006

reph said:
I don't believe we've met.

You have lost me.

reph · Apr 11, 2006

All right, I'll try again.

Strongbadia said:
No one really cares if it is "grammatically" incorrect to have a 10 items or less.

I sure as hell care!

Strongbadia · Apr 11, 2006

reph said:
All right, I'll try again.

I sure as hell care!

Okay, but why do you care? The reason there for incorrect usage is because written language is a poor bastard to the spoken version. Writing is speech's red-headed step child. I do not think it matters if people learn arbitrary rules as if they were fact. I see no point in that.

You are fighting a losing battle. The way people talk has always altered the language. It is going to continue to alter the language because it evolves. All the rules we teach in schools are really arbitrary.

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