English or Mother Tongue

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

So, I have a question for all of you. I grew up speaking German and very obviously that's the language I am most fluent in.

I started to read English books at the age of 15 and ever since then I've mostly been writing in English except for the actual writing work. My diaries were a mix of German and English but as I spend a whole lot of my time on the Internet I mostly use English to communicate.

I then found out that I started to have troubles writing in German as the words suddenly came to me in English. But when I tried to write in English I of course noticed that I'm lacking vocabulary.

I wrote several stories in English, Thesaurus always right next to me and I love writing in this language. On the other side I very often have the impression I'm not able to put the story down in the way I'd be able to in German.

I'm very tempted to write in English but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do. What do you think?

My notes, biographies, outlines etc. are mostly in English, some comments are in German.

Aconite · Apr 7, 2006

Which do you most want to write any individual piece in?

You strike me as a dedicated person who's still learning. Writing is something you learn by doing. Figure out which language you want to use for whatever work you're doing, and use that. If you've got some good beta readers, they can help you refine your language and usage over time. No matter what language you use, your writing will progress as you become more skillful. You only get closer to perfect by being willing to be imperfect while you learn.

The very best of luck to you.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 7, 2006

language

Maybe you should write your first drafts in German, then translate the story into English in the second draft?

Aconite · Apr 7, 2006

James, from my experience with translation, that's not a good idea. Not only do you think differently in different languages, but the construction of the language itself determines much about how it's expressed. You could translate plot, but elegance of language would most likely go right out the window.

This is, of course, just my experience, and I am no expert.

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

I'd like to write in English.
I just have the impression that the elegance of the language, the descriptions and things like that will be not nearly as good as in German. On the other side I mostly read books in English and I get the feeling that I just prefer that language.
I have beta readers that can correct my grammar etc.

@translation: I once tried to translate a story into English and it ended up being a complete rewrite with the same plot but nothing else was similar to how it was in German.

Aconite · Apr 7, 2006

Forbidden Snowflake said:
I'd like to write in English.
I just have the impression that the elegance of the language, the descriptions and things like that will be not nearly as good as in German. On the other side I mostly read books in English and I get the feeling that I just prefer that language.
I have beta readers that can correct my grammar etc.

With practice, you pick up elegance. And good beta readers can help you with more than grammar; they can point out alternate ways of expression and word choice and so on.

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

Aconite said:
With practice, you pick up elegance. And good beta readers can help you with more than grammar; they can point out alternate ways of expression and word choice and so on.

That's true, thinking about it from that point of view I guess I should just write in English if I want to and keep on learning!

Jamesaritchie · Apr 7, 2006

Langauge.

Aconite said:
James, from my experience with translation, that's not a good idea. Not only do you think differently in different languages, but the construction of the language itself determines much about how it's expressed. You could translate plot, but elegance of language would most likely go right out the window.

This is, of course, just my experience, and I am no expert.

It's worked well for some bilingual writers. I used to know a writer who wrote all first drafts in Yiddish, then rewrote the next draft in English. I knew another who did the same thing with Spanish. Elegance of language is something a bilingual writer can do for himself once the story, plot, and characters are in place. What you lose in translation, you can regain with a new draft.

Aconite · Apr 7, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It's worked well for some bilingual writers. I used to know a writer who wrote all first drafts in Yiddish, then rewrote the next draft in English. I knew another who did the same thing with Spanish. Elegance of language is something a bilingual writer can do for himself once the story, plot, and characters are in place. What you lose in translation, you can regain with a new draft.

Whatever works is what works.

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It's worked well for some bilingual writers. I used to know a writer who wrote all first drafts in Yiddish, then rewrote the next draft in English.

I'm thinking about using German to write a paragraph or more in case I get stuck at some point but know how to continue in German.

It's interesting to know that some people actually do write like this. Thank you for the suggestion

maestrowork · Apr 7, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It's worked well for some bilingual writers. I used to know a writer who wrote all first drafts in Yiddish, then rewrote the next draft in English. I knew another who did the same thing with Spanish. Elegance of language is something a bilingual writer can do for himself once the story, plot, and characters are in place. What you lose in translation, you can regain with a new draft.

I am bilingual. When I write for an English audience, I write in English. When I write for a Chinese audience, I write in Chinese. I don't like to write in one language and then translate it (unless, of course, my book crosses over foreign market). There are just too many cultural and literary differences between any two languages and it's just AS difficult to translate, if not more, as to write in that language in the first place.

I'm not saying it won't work, but it depends on the writers. I know some people who write in Chinese first then translate it back to English and it just doesn't work (well). One of the best advice I got from a teacher was that if I really wanted to master English (both written and spoken), I'd have to start speaking/writing/thinking in English exclusively and stop thinking in Chinese, then translating it back to English. When I speak, I don't think in Chinese, then translate. I think in English. Many people who have troubles with a foreign language fail to "think" in that foreign language, and it comes out half-baked. Despite my accent, some people actually think I was born and raised in the US...

My suggestion to the OP is write in the language you're most comfortable with, and target that market. I'm sure there is a huge German book market, no? But if you are most fluent in German but you'd like to write for the English market, then the best thing to do really is to learn the English language and keep writing in that language until you master it. There's no other way. That's how I did it.

aruna · Apr 7, 2006

maestrowork said:
My suggestion to the OP is write in the language you're most comfortable with, and target that market. I'm sure there is a huge German book market, no? But if you are most fluent in German but you'd like to write for the English market, then the best thing to do really is to learn the English language and keep writing in that language until you master it. There's no other way. That's how I did it.

I'm with Maestro on this. English and German require two totally different kinds of thinking altogether, and it woul dbe better to stick to the one you feel more at home in.
However, you also need to consider your market. If you "think" English and can write according to Anglo-American specifications you would do well writing in German, as their readership is hungry for that kind of book - just look at their best-selller lists! German fiction tends to be very heavy...
Where do you live btw, in Germany or in the US or elsewhere?

DamaNegra · Apr 7, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
Maybe you should write your first drafts in German, then translate the story into English in the second draft?

Bad, BAD idea. I sometimes do that, it's tedious work and the story/novel whatever loses most of its meaning.

I'm spanish-speaking, and I have the same problem. I don't know wether to write in english or spanish. If I write in spanish, I'd be more comfortable but my written spanish is kind of archaic, plus it's very VERY hard to publish in spanish-speaking countries. If I write english, I might be able to publish easier and well, I know enough english to blend in in US so that's not a problem. But now that I'm learning french I also want to write in french!

I think you should just write in whatever language you're most comfortable in.

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

aruna said:
Where do you live btw, in Germany or in the US or elsewhere?

I live in Switzerland. Half of my family speaks French and the other half German and I grew up with both.
But I am thinking more and more in English as I'm spending so much time with this wonderful language.
At the moment I have the impression that both things are starting to be a problem, in German many words and expressions are coming to me in English as I spend such a big part of my day reading English books and speaking English but on the other side I keep having to look up words while writing in English and getting stuck when am lacking vocabulary.

Aconite · Apr 7, 2006

Forbidden Snowflake said:
At the moment I have the impression that both things are starting to be a problem, in German many words and expressions are coming to me in English as I spend such a big part of my day reading English books and speaking English but on the other side I keep having to look up words while writing in English and getting stuck when am lacking vocabulary.

You're just in an awkward stage of your learning. That's all. If you persist, your vocabulary will grow. It won't always be like this.

MacAllister · Apr 7, 2006

many words and expressions are coming to me in English as I spend such a big part of my day reading English books and speaking English but on the other side I keep having to look up words while writing in English and getting stuck when am lacking vocabulary.

Snowflake, it very much sounds like you're in a transitional place in terms of your fluency, as well--you're making another big jump. Vocabulary is tedious, but you can totally work on that all the time.

Be gentle with yourself, eh? Hell--the right words often don't come to me, either, and I grew up speaking English.

janetbellinger · Apr 7, 2006

Definitely write in whatever language you are most comfortable in. The eloquence you seek will come to you, and if you run into a block, you can write it in German first then translate. ESL theory encourages students to write first in their first language, then translate, at times. I have found that when I am helping my beginning and middle ESL students get into a project, that it really helps them to figure out and express what they want to say, in their first language, then translate. You sound though, by your posts, like you are very advanced in English usage. Don't worry unduly about it. I have found that often students for whom English is a second language have better grammar than many who were born and raised in an English speaking country.

janetbellinger · Apr 7, 2006

And my own grammar is often lacking, as well.

Forbidden Snowflake · Apr 7, 2006

Thank you for your comments, you're making me feel more confident about writing in English.
I will definitely continue working on it.

maestrowork · Apr 7, 2006

Aconite said:
You're just in an awkward stage of your learning. That's all. If you persist, your vocabulary will grow. It won't always be like this.

Right on. It takes time. It took me YEARS to have the vocabulary I have now. Little by little, like collecting pebbles and rocks, you eventually would build a castle. But the trick is to keep collecting. Keep using and writing and speaking and thinking in that language until it's in your vein.

Well, until you dream in English.

(ps. I just spent a whole day translating a press release from English to Chinese. It was not easy. Things that were phrased correctly in English came out just WRONG in Chinese, and I had to do a lot of fixes. But the translation process is very interesting, because I found myself switching between both languages -- in terms of thought process. Very weird.)

MDLP · Apr 8, 2006

Forbidden Snowflake said:
So, I have a question for all of you. I grew up speaking German and very obviously that's the language I am most fluent in.

I started to read English books at the age of 15 and ever since then I've mostly been writing in English except for the actual writing work. My diaries were a mix of German and English but as I spend a whole lot of my time on the Internet I mostly use English to communicate.

I then found out that I started to have troubles writing in German as the words suddenly came to me in English. But when I tried to write in English I of course noticed that I'm lacking vocabulary.

I wrote several stories in English, Thesaurus always right next to me and I love writing in this language. On the other side I very often have the impression I'm not able to put the story down in the way I'd be able to in German.

I'm very tempted to write in English but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do. What do you think?

My notes, biographies, outlines etc. are mostly in English, some comments are in German.

Actually, some rather fascinating effects may be wrought from writers and narrators for whom English is an auxiliary language. Two most excellent examples spring readily to mind:

Jonathan Safran Foer's "Everything is Illuminated"

&

"The Heath Anthology of American Literature".

Luck

HourglassMemory · Apr 8, 2006

I'm portuguese but I think I write better in English than in Portuguese...in portuguese things just sound different and cornier..I dunno.
Although I'm surrounded by portuguese people all year. I write my novel in english because I feel more comfortable with this language. I learned english by myself because I watched Cartoon Network and BBC when I was aorund 8( that's actually when the human brain is more susceptible to learn language)...like everyday. And now, at 16 years of age, I think( all the time) and DREAM (sometimes) in English which is kind of odd.

Kentuk · Oct 8, 2006

Snow You may need to push to write in English now and master the language but in terms of market and culture consider writing in both, doing your own translations. Take advantage of your strengths.

Kentuk

Sesselja · Oct 9, 2006

I say write in German, but that's just me being a bit fed up with how the English language is seeping in everywhere. Yes, it's wonderful that we can all communicate together over the net, using one language that "everyone" understands. But at the same time, I am overwhelmed with sadness when so many people prefer to write fiction in English rather than in their mother tongue.

As for the advice on writing in one language, then translate into the other: good luck if you can do it. For me it is a vile, vile concept.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Oct 9, 2006

Try this:

If you are writing in English and run into a word you don't know, use the German word instead of breaking your flow. Format it differently so you can find it later.

Go back later with the dictionary and thesaurus and replace German with English.

English or Mother Tongue

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

Aconite

Jamesaritchie

Aconite

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

Aconite

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

Jamesaritchie

Aconite

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

DamaNegra

Mexican on the loose!

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

Aconite

MacAllister

Tired and worried.

janetbellinger

janetbellinger

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

MDLP

HourglassMemory

Kentuk

I want to write what I want to write

Sesselja

Tsu Dho Nimh