I need some advice

icerose · Apr 5, 2006

My script Whispers from the Ashes has won a contest and the prize is production. I get 1.5% of the film budget and 1.5% of the profits but they have assigned a rather low budget to it like only $50,000.

Now a different film company which I had submitted it to a few months ago has now said they want to send it into pre-production. I have just asked them what they are offering and told them that I need to know soon as this above situation and I only have like a week to decide.

What should I do?

Sara

dpaterso · Apr 5, 2006

Congrats on both successes.

The prodco hasn't optioned or bought your screenplay? But they're moving to pre-production?

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

icerose · Apr 5, 2006

Thanks,
I'm confused as well which is why I contacted them immediately asking questions.

dpaterso · Apr 5, 2006

Mmm, yeah, something's odd... or maybe when they say pre-production they mean they're checking to see whether or not they can make the darn film. I appreciate your confusion and hope they reply with an answer that makes sense. It's going to be a nail-biting week for you! Do you take the $750 with the promise of more to come later, or do you hold out for the potential bigger contract? Without more info...

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

icerose · Apr 5, 2006

That's what I'm guess, but I don't agree with anything until after I get to ask a hundred questions. Not since Publish America I don't take anything at face value. It will be interesting to hear their answer and I really hope its a bigger offer, because although a sale is nice, it would be great to get more than 750 bucks.

Randomness · Apr 6, 2006

congrats!

It's good to know that there are sales going on in this world.

But even if it is only 750 bucks, it's still an accomplishment right? It may be better to have a produced film under your belt. It may be better for your resume and help you in finding an agent

.

Good Luck.

Chesher Cat · Apr 6, 2006

If you have two parties interested you should leverage that to get some agents to read it. If an agent thinks it's great, maybe they'll send it out and get a real sale. $750 is even low as an option price much less a sale price with a "promise" of more later. You know how it is, "more later" never comes.

Congrats on getting it out there.

icerose · Apr 6, 2006

Thanks for the advice. I really don't think an agent would contact me within a week.

I was extremely disappointed when they assigned such a measly budget to it and hope they either raise it or this other company gives me a better deal.

When I have all the details I will update everyone.

Thanks again for your responses.

Sara

Joe Unidos · Apr 8, 2006

No one else seems to have brought this up, so I will: it would seem to me that part of the contest rules are probably that they get the winning screenplay, so I suspect your "choice" has been made for you.

And the time constraints aren't really the issue. I don't think you will find any agent interested in collecting $7.50 on your sale. Still, even with a crazy low budget ($50,000), a credit is a credit! Good luck.

icerose · Apr 8, 2006

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your response.

Part of the winning stipulation is to be considered a winner forever you have to agree to their production contract, but no I still have a choice, but I would be renounced as a winner. The choice is not made for me.

And yes a credit is a credit.

Thanks

Sara

bluejester12 · Apr 8, 2006

So you can decide if you win?

What's the genre? I'm curious so I can get a better understanding of your situation with that budget.

Mac H. · Apr 9, 2006

Hi Sara,

Congratulations! But if it is a feature, then it impossible to film it within a $75k budget.

Try it yourself.
Assume that it can be filmed within 10 days with zero overtime, that zero work is done before or after the filming.
Also assume (for the sake of simplicity) that the following people are willing to work for $100 per day:

Producer's Assistant,Director's Assistant,Production Supervisor,Production Manager,Production Co-ordinator,Production Secretary,Production Assistant,Runner,Production - Casuals,Location Manager,Assistant Location Manager,Unit Manager,Unit Assistant,Unit - Casuals,Travel Co-ordinator,Transport Manager,Transport Assistant,Driver,Base Office Liaison,Financial Controller,1st Assistant Director,2nd Assistant Director,3rd Assistant Director,Casual Asst. Directors,Script Supervisor/Continuity,D. O. P.,Operator,Focus Puller,Clapper Loader,Video Split Operator,Camera - Casual,Steadicam Operator,Steadicam Assistant,Underwater/Aerial Camera Operator,Recordist,Recordist,Boom Operator,Boom Op/Cable Runner,Audio Playback Operator,Sound - Casual,Gaffer,Best Boy,Electrician 1,Electrician 2,Electricians - Casual,Generator Operator,Pre-light/Rigging Crew,Key Grip,Grip,Assistant Grip,Grips - Casual,Costume Designer,Assistant Costume Designer,Costume Supervisor,Costume Co-ordinator,Costume Buyer,Standby Costume,Costume - Casual,Specialist Costume manufacture,Make-up Artist,Assistant,Sp. Fx. Make-up Artist,Make-up Staff - Casual,Hairdresser,Assistant,Sp. Fx. & Wigs,Hairdressers - Casual,Production Designer,Assistant Designer,Art Director,Asst. Art Director,Art Department Co-ordinator,Art Department Accountant,Draughtsperson,Special Artist,Props Buyer,Assistant Props Buyer,Set Decorator,Set Dresser,Standby Props,Assistant Standby Props,Video Playback Operator,Set/Props Maker,Set/Model Maker,Graphic Artist,Art Dept. Runner,Art Dept. Casuals,Greensperson,Greens - Casuals,Animal Assistants,Action Vehicle Co-ordinator.,Marine Co-ordinator,Mechanic,DriverWrangler,Construction Manager,Construction Foreman,Construction Accountant,Leading Hand,Standby Carpenter,Carpenter,Labourer,Carpenters & Labourers - Casuals,Signwriter,Scenic Artist,Head Painter,Standby Painter,Painter,Set Finisher,Brush-hand,Construction Runner,Construction Electrician,Sp. Fx. Manager,Sp. Fx. Co-ordinator,Sp. Fx. Buyer,Sp. Fx. Assistant,Sp. Fx. - Casual,Mechanical Fx. Co-ordinator,Pyro Fx. Co-ordinator,Model Fx. Co-ordinator,Model Maker,Armourer,Armourer-Casual,Safety Supervisor/Officer,Safety Officer,Safety Adviser,Police,Traffic Control,Security,Ambulance Officer,Fire Officer,Doctor,Nurse,First Aid Officer,Tutor,Chaperone,Nannie,On Set Child Supervision,Overnight Child Supervision,Stills Camera Operator

So far we are up to a budget of $147k - without paying any overtime, without any props, locations, camera - or a single foot of film !!!

Now they can squeeze things within a fake $75k budget by paying many people on deferrment. (eg: 10% up front, the rest when/if the film gets distribution)

That's fine, but it should be shown on the balance sheet as a loan or deferred cost - the 'true' budget would be closer to $250k, and that is the value that must be used to calculate your payment.

Mac
(PS: Congratulations again)

icerose · Apr 9, 2006

Hey bluejester,

No, they pick the winners then the winners pick whether or not they want to accept the terms and conditions of being a winner.

The genre mine is in is Thriller/horror.

Mac,
I thought it would be a stretch with their top budget of 5 million as I have a building exploding and at least 15 characters with talking parts.

I think they are counting on not paying most of the people. As they are pooling from a group of unknowns but even then its a stretch. I am pretty sure they are counting on rewriting the script and they lumped me in with a group of people who mostly have shorts. This is a 98 page feature. Another thing is there are three others in this same group who have itemized everything on their budget and two of them need 500K and the third needs 1.5 mil. So how they are going to jam it in, I have no idea. It will be interesting to see.

This other company that also wants it is willing to co-produce it, so it would be rather awesome if they would team up, it might even get a decent budget.

I will let you know.

Sara

icerose · Apr 10, 2006

Well I went through a Q&A session with them yesterday. I am actually getting 2% of the initial budget and 10% of the profits. If it ends up being high enough quality it will hit theatres. It is going to film festivals and they are going to help me put up a page on IMDB which is good because I have no idea how to do that.

I am obviously hoping for the highest distribution of theatres and store release. What's cool is I and anyone who wants to gets to help with the step by step process and earn co-producer credits.

They explained how the minimize costs. Most of their staff is on a salary so they do not go toward the cost of film, they are shooting digitally, and already own all of the equipment, studios and such. The actors/actresses that are initially signing up are on a deferred basis, so that also helps.

So I have my first real sale, and I still have no idea what I'm doing lol.

Sara

broughcut · Apr 10, 2006

Well you may well be able to get out of it if you want to go with the other production company.

If all you ever agreed to was 1.5% of an unspecified budget, I don't think that is a legally binding option. (Not saying for certain, but I would be surprised if it is.)

My understanding is that you need a fixed dollar price in the option agreement, the exercise price (the "floor"). The other component is actually a bonus based on budget (often up to a ceiling price).

If there was no floor price in your agreement and these people still hold on to the option (who wants to work with an unhappy writer/winner--I guess they will let you go if you ask), there are a couple of entertainment law blogs knocking around and one of those dudes may be able to give you a specific answer on whether an option sans exercise price is an enforceable agreement.

icerose · Apr 10, 2006

Hi broughcut,

There is a floor and ceiling. It is currently set at 1000 as the floor budget adn 20,000 as the ceiling budget. If they happen to get more funding then it would obviously raise.

Sara

broughcut · Apr 10, 2006

sorry I read this thread backwards from the reply window

and missed this:

No, they pick the winners then the winners pick whether or not they want to accept the terms and conditions of being a winner.

I guess winners can be choosers.

Maybe you should hold out and enter the Nicholl and try querying more established producers. If they really do like the script, these indie guys will still be around...

The fact that anyone can earn a co-producer credit is actually quite revealing, but not in a good way.

Depends what you want for the script. If you think they can pull it off, then working with passionate and talented people could be a great networking/learning opportunity. Probably a candidate for a short rather than a feature, however?

icerose · Apr 11, 2006

That's okay broughcut,
My co-writer wants to sign and doesn't weant this to slip away, so my options are much narrower, also it is opening the door to other things.

On the producer part, you'd really have to visit the site to understand. The title is honorary producer.

I will try to describe it to the best of my ability. There are a list of 14 tasks, all of which a producer has to make decisions on. If people participate in at least 80% of the tasks and their ideas are used in the production, then they get producer credit. Opening producer credit to everyone, but that doesn't mean just anyone can get it. You ahve to be in there step by step, make intelligent decisions that the staff love. Ultimately the main producer will have final say but the input will be carefully weighed. The choices are also narrow, you vote on four or five selected choices of what you want to see. If your option is selected one of the people who chose that option will be selected as a winner for a weekly prize.

I think they can do a pretty good job. I will find the main producers credits. And most of this is for independant filmmakers, those get the biggest benefits, but it certainly doesn't hurt as a first sale either.

Sara

icerose · Apr 22, 2006

Well I decided to go with filmties. In the contract they leave room to expand the budget if needed thus expanding my payment. No arguement here!

On the second company that was interested they were putting it into production without acquiring the rights. When I pulled it they tried to collect 500 dollars for the work they had put into it. Since I informed them to hang on the moment they notified me that it was going into production I have no idea how they managed to spend 500 dollars, not to mention they were in violation of my copywrite for trying to produce it without acquiring the rights.

Do these people seriously have no idea that they need a contract before touching work?

It's pretty interesting...

Chesher Cat · Apr 22, 2006

icerose said:
On the producer part, you'd really have to visit the site to understand. The title is honorary producer.

I will try to describe it to the best of my ability. There are a list of 14 tasks, all of which a producer has to make decisions on. If people participate in at least 80% of the tasks and their ideas are used in the production, then they get producer credit. Opening producer credit to everyone, but that doesn't mean just anyone can get it. You ahve to be in there step by step, make intelligent decisions that the staff love. Ultimately the main producer will have final say but the input will be carefully weighed. The choices are also narrow, you vote on four or five selected choices of what you want to see. If your option is selected one of the people who chose that option will be selected as a winner for a weekly prize.

I think they can do a pretty good job. I will find the main producers credits. And most of this is for independant filmmakers, those get the biggest benefits, but it certainly doesn't hurt as a first sale either.

Sara

Who are these people? Honorary producer? A weekly prize? This all sounds really sketchy.

icerose · Apr 22, 2006

The site is http://filmties.com

Its basically an indie site with everyone coming together.

The prize is to encourage participation in the interaction section.

The honorary producer is part of the interaction, its to demystify the industry so to speak and allow people to go step by step in the movie production. Ultimately the producer has the final say, but they want to hear feedback.

The people involved whom I have spoken with are rather nice.

I will keep you all updated as it progresses, I can't say for sure that they aren't sketchy, but I haven't dealt with any problems or concerns that they haven't addressed.

BarryD · Apr 22, 2006

Seller beware

I just jumped over to the Filmties site and took a look. One of the things that leapt out after viewing the actors pages was the lack of information. The other was -- Lack of agents -- Does this mean that they are complete amatuers...?

Then there is the budget they're shooting on. Blair Witch shot for US $76,000 if I remember rightly. What a piece of s@#t that was. And it made a fortune, but where are the writer and director now?

Sites like this always worry me, but that's just me

As for their % deal with you -- I have just settled the terms of my 2nd feature contract. I get 3% of the budget for the script and 4% Monkey points. I am NOT holding my breath for the back-end %. Both films fall between the US $2,500,000 - $7,000,000 range.

Ultimately being produced for the 1st time is the goal -- Being produced and having a quality product at the end of it will make or break you. If these people are cowboys and you end up with a film that doesn't even go straight to video & it happens -- Where do you go from there?

On the up side -- You get a very good first film that clicks tickets and puts bums on seats, then agents open their doors and kiss your @#*.

It's amazing isn't it; The only way producers and directors get to make films (to make a living) is because we give them a voice -- The first word on a white slate...

Yet we dwell on the bottom rung...

...The troll under the word processor

icerose · Apr 22, 2006

Hi Barry,
Thanks for commenting. The vast majority of the participants are amatuers, or unknowns, or both. The company themselves, I will have to find the list of credits again, but the producer and such are not fresh out of the gate, they have been around the track a few times.

Blair witch creators made Book of Shadows, not sure what they have done since that. The shaky camera work on the blair witch commercials was enough to make me stay away.

Congratulations on your deals, I am just beginning to get my work out there. A deal like yours would be nice. Thus far I haven't had much luck in quering various places, so I am trying this route.

Would you mind sharing how you got your deals, the process and such? I would love to know.

As for the film, one can always hope it is of high quality. Distribution will depend on quality as some of the selected winners will be directing their own work as they are writers and directors.

I am not counting on this to launch my carreer, I continue to write, edit, and rewrite more works and pitch them to other places, but I seem to be missing something. I only seem to find low budget (I mean very low!) places with little to offer in terms of promise.

All I can do is try.

And we probably dwell on the lowest rung because there are droves of us and the quality varies greatly.

BarryD · Apr 22, 2006

Pecking order

Writers dwell on the lowest rung regardless of where they are in production cycle. They are the lowest paid cog in the machine, unless you are Joe Eszterhas or Shane Black. Generally they end up being largely ignored and rewritten by some jerk that thinks they know your story better than you do -- Bitter, yes, but true.

Why do we do it to ourselves? For my part -- I love writing & I'd do it; pay or no pay. My dream is to direct my own features. I have been plugging away at my own short films and have a few festival shorts live at:

www.nzshortfilm.com

Hold the Anchovies
The Meeting
Three Way
The Longest Night - Redux
Now my baby's back (Music Video)

My 1st feature was optioned by Faulkner Productions when my NZ producer went to the L.A Film Market and pitched it to him. My 2nd came after Lee Faulkner had read the 1st and decided to offer me the job of writing the sequel to his successful teen-horror flick 'Fear of the Dark' My 3rd looks pretty good to go with Roland Emerich's producers, who are currently in NZ to shoot '10,000 Years BC' with my producer line-producing for them.

In a nutshell; It's been about networking. Being in the right place at the right time. Having great product to back it up -- Luck

The writer is dead. Long live the writer.

WritingFool · Apr 22, 2006

Hey Rose, with you all the way and hope nothing but success for you.
When most of the doors are closed, small time people have to try making their own doors, or have to ban together with other soon-to-be's and take that chance. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesnt, but its far better than sitting around doing nothing.

Just remember, everyone was a no one at some time in their life, and as long as your pursuing your passion, its bringing you pleasure then youre still on the right track.

So ride this wave as long as it will take you, keep your motivation up, and tomorrow will take care if itself. Just know theres always another wave soon to come your way. So try to enjoy the ride.

Good luck to you, and to everyone here!

I need some advice

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