#@$%* English!

Elwyn · Mar 29, 2006

Of the two sentences below, which one is "more" correct and why? Anyone have a clue?

but certainly is not limited to........
but is certainly not limited to.......

alleycat · Mar 29, 2006

The second one.

Now, where's those grammar gurus. . . .

Forbidden Snowflake · Mar 29, 2006

The second one. I vaguely remember something about those little words always coming before the verb. Now, why that was, no clue

CaroGirl · Mar 29, 2006

Elwyn said:
Of the two sentences below, which one is "more" correct and why? Anyone have a clue?

but certainly is not limited to........
but is certainly not limited to.......

The second one, and I'll tell you why. The modifier in these examples is "certainly". In the sense that you want to convey, certainly has to modify the word "not", not the word "is". You want to say "certainly not", not "certainly is". Clear as mud yet? Essentially, the first sentence contains a misplaced modifier and is therefore incorrect.

Hope this helps.

Strongbadia · Mar 29, 2006

You should post the whole sentence. A fragment does not tell the whole story.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 29, 2006

Elwyn said:
Of the two sentences below, which one is "more" correct and why? Anyone have a clue?

but certainly is not limited to........
but is certainly not limited to.......

I'd rather see the context, but this is a question of usage and style, not grammar.

ColoradoGuy · Mar 29, 2006

Medievalist said:
I'd rather see the context, but this is a question of usage and style, not grammar.

I agree. The grammar is correct in each, but the emphasis differs. Say them out loud, stressing by turns the "certainly" and the "not" in the various places and the one that you want will probably grab you. On the other hand, most likely you have already tried that approach.

Elwyn · Mar 29, 2006

The target audience includes, but is certainly not limited to, young adults who read fantasy/adventure/science fiction.

vs.

The target audience includes, but certainly is not limited to, young adults who read fantasy/adventure/science fiction.

Thank you all on this! :Hug2:

To me, good writing cannot always be grammatically correct. Sometimes correct grammar can make sentences read and sound clunky. But, when writing a query letter, I’m afraid that the reader is looking for correct grammar; but I really don’t know for sure.

Stew21 · Mar 29, 2006

in the full sentences, you changed the order of them, so based on the full sentences, the first one is correct.

CaroGirl · Mar 29, 2006

ColoradoGuy said:
I agree. The grammar is correct in each, but the emphasis differs. Say them out loud, stressing by turns the "certainly" and the "not" in the various places and the one that you want will probably grab you. On the other hand, most likely you have already tried that approach.

I think this absolutely is a grammar question, about misplaced modifiers. I’m not sure when you would ever, in a negative sentence, want certainly to modify “is” instead of “not.” Can you guys explain that to me cuz I’s confloozed? (but always ready to learn something noo).

jst5150 · Mar 29, 2006

The second one because its larger.

Elwyn · Mar 29, 2006

Huh?

CaroGirl said:
I think this absolutely is a grammar question, about misplaced modifiers. I’m not sure when you would ever, in a negative sentence, want certainly to modify “is” instead of “not.” Can you guys explain that to me cuz I’s confloozed? (but always ready to learn something noo).

In the above statement, I would have written "want to certainly modify" vs. "want certainly to modify."

I'd probably be wrong, but it just sounds better to me.

Actually, I'd leave out certainly because it seems confusing (to me).

Deleted member 42 · Mar 29, 2006

Elwyn said:
The target audience includes, but is certainly not limited to, young adults who read fantasy/adventure/science fiction.

vs.

The target audience includes, but certainly is not limited to, young adults who read fantasy/adventure/science fiction.

I'd remove certainly. It's excess baggage.

I prefer the second, but not for a grammatical reason. Both are grammatically correct; it's a style / usage issue.

It's not a misplaced modifier. Parse the sentence.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 29, 2006

Elwyn said:
In the above statement, I would have written "want to certainly modify" vs. "want certainly to modify."

I'd probably be wrong, but it just sounds better to me.

Actually, I'd leave out certainly because it seems confusing (to me).

Oh dear . . . here comes the dreaded split infinitive chasm . . .

reph · Mar 29, 2006

I decide each of these on the facts of the case and on sound. "The target audience...certainly is not limited to..." has a defensive tone. You'd use it to rebut a previous assertion that the audience was limited to...

"Is your mother a prostitute?"
"She certainly is not!"

If you're merely emphasizing that the audience isn't limited to..., "is certainly not limited" works. As above, though, you don't need "certainly" this time.

blacbird · Mar 29, 2006

Medievalist said:
I'd remove certainly. It's excess baggage.

I agree. This isn't particularly a grammar problem. It's more a problem of the weakness and superfluity of an adverb.

caw.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 29, 2006

Certainly

I, too, would remove "certainly." Having said that, I think it is a grammar problem. It should be "certainly not."

Strongbadia · Mar 29, 2006

What sentence are all of you even talking about? It does not seem clear to me what you are correcting.

maestrowork · Mar 29, 2006

Adverbs are a very strange thing -- they can go almost anywhere.

Certainly it's not limited to...

It's certainly not limited to...

It certainly is not limited to...

It's not limited to, certainly,...

It comes down to what sounds the best...

reph · Mar 29, 2006

Strongbadia said:
What sentence are all of you even talking about? It does not seem clear to me what you are correcting.

The sentence is in post #1 of this thread.

veronie · Mar 29, 2006

This has been said already, but I wanted to affirm it. Both sentences are correct, but they each say something a little different.

"but certainly is not limited to ..." This sentence indicates the speaker/writer is sure (certain) that the issue at hand is not limited to ...

"but is certainly not limited to ..." This sentence indicates that the issue at hand is surely (certainly) not limited to ...

You see the difference?

luxintenebrae · Mar 29, 2006

Reading these posts, it began to feel like when you repeat a word over and over in your head until it doesn't sound like a real word anymore. Now "certainly" looks like a funny word to me. :tongue

But I agree. I thought adverbs could be put almost anywhere in a sentence, depending on what style and tone the writer is trying to express. I think the placement of "certainly" can suggest not only a defensive tone, but also can give the sentence a more formal or conversational tone. That's why they're fun to play around with.

luxintenebrae · Mar 29, 2006

veronie said:
This has been said already, but I wanted to affirm it. Both sentences are correct, but they each say something a little different.

"but certainly is not limited to ..." This sentence indicates the speaker/writer is sure (certain) that the issue at hand is not limited to ...

"but is certainly not limited to ..." This sentence indicates that the issue at hand is surely (certainly) not limited to ...

You see the difference?

I guess, after reading them over several times, it sort of seemed like each could mean something different. But when I reversed them, imagining the speaker was certain in the 2nd one and the issue was certainly in the 1st one, they sounded fine that way, too. Seems a bit ambiguous.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 29, 2006

maestrowork said:
Adverbs are a very strange thing -- they can go almost anywhere.

The only requirement is that there be a verb--and the copula "be" counts.

In case anyone was dying of curiousity, this is one of the few totally cool things Modern English inherited, syntacticly, from Old English.

Yeah, I thought y'all would be ecstatic

Strongbadia · Mar 29, 2006

reph said:
The sentence is in post #1 of this thread.

but certainly is not limited to........
but is certainly not limited to.......

Neither example is a complete sentence. It is a little difficult to give a right or wrong answer when the rest of the sentence is not given. It is also difficult to give an answer when the anaphoric reference is not present. I would like to see what is before the conjunction.

#@$%* English!

Elwyn

alleycat

Still around

Forbidden Snowflake

I'm quite put out.

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Strongbadia

Deleted member 42

ColoradoGuy

I've seen worse.

Elwyn

Stew21

CaroGirl

Living the dream

jst5150

Vorpal Comics. Weekly Podcast. Twitch Artist. Vet

Elwyn

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42

reph

Fig of authority

blacbird

Jamesaritchie

Strongbadia

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

reph

Fig of authority

veronie

practical experience, FTW

luxintenebrae

luxintenebrae

Deleted member 42

Strongbadia