Phonetic Dialogue

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JFitchett92

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Hey all,

When is it appropriate to use phonetic spelling during dialogue?

I have a character in my WIP who speaks with a very thick accent which is unusual to my MC. It's somewhat similar to a jamaican accent, but as my MC struggles to understand it she has to really concentrate on each sound. The story is written in first-person, and I was thinking of having this character's dialogue written as it sounds to show my MC's struggle in a more visual way.

I've seen some examples of this working in both ways, sometimes it paints the perfect picture, other times it becomes jarring.

What are your opinions?

Thanks
 

Bufty

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Phonetics rarely create the impression the writer thinks they do.

I want to read stuff I can understand, not translate mumbo jumbo.

All I need to know is one character has a particular accent the other finds difficult to follow.
 

BookmarkUnicorn

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An easy way for me to know a character has an accent is the certain words they use (London word use vs. New York-isms etc) and the order of those words (say, if someone doesn't have english as their first language and has trouble with it) . But braking those words down to where they don't even sound like words anymore is another thing altogether to me, than say, a southern accent where someone drops their word endin's once 'n a while and starts talkin' like this. I am use to reading southern characters though, so maybe that is a reader's taste thing.
 

guttersquid

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Hey all,

When is it appropriate to use phonetic spelling during dialogue?

I've seen some examples of this working in both ways, sometimes it paints the perfect picture, other times it becomes jarring.

That's the key, isn't it? Like anything else in writing, when it's done well, it's great. When it's not done well . . .
 

Maryn

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I hate-hate-hate phonetic spelling. It's really hard to read.

What I vastly prefer is to be told about the character's strong accent by how others react to is when s/he speaks, then a telling word or two to remind me that accent's always there.

"Come on, sugar, you know it'll be fine." Southern, right?
"Y'all coming to the pig roast?" Texas.
"Dude, you totally have to pay for that!" SoCal.

And so on. Just pick a pet word or phrase which is typical of your accent and use it here and there. Don't hit the reader over the head with it, just provide reminders when it's been a while.

Maryn, who doesn't have an accent (isn't that what we all think?)
 

benbenberi

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When is it appropriate to use phonetic spelling during dialogue?

Never.

Besides the fact that weirdly-spelled text is difficult for readers to read, the only kind of phonetic spelling that can accurately convey the sounds you mean is the kind that uses the formal phonetic alphabet -- which is also difficult for readers who are not also linguists.

If you try to spell phonetically without using the phonetic alphabet, you run into an insurmountable obstacle: most readers will not interpret your phonetic spelling to mean the sounds you intend. People read with different accents in their minds, and different understandings of what various letter-combinations sound like. You may transcribe someone's speech using "phonetic" spelling that seems perfectly obvious and accurate to you, but for many readers it may not resolve into anything remotely resembling what you meant.

And that's assuming they make the effort to sound it out at all. Mostly they'll look at the weirdly spelled bit, skip it and move on to where it isn't. (Which may be someone else's book.)

There are much more user-friendly approaches to character accents. One excellent way is simply to say, "Bob spoke with a thick Whatsitcalled accent, so that Jane had difficulty understanding him."

You can also suggest an accent by vocabulary and diction. That's a far more effective way than phonetic gibberish to make a reader hear the character's accent as they read.
 

shelleyo

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Phonetic spelling gives me flashbacks to grade school and having to read Mark Twain. Yes, American classic, I know, but I am not a fan. It was like tying to decipher code sometimes, and that's still how I feel about phonetic dialogue.

Go with phrases and words that identify an accent or a region. Or explain what a certain word sounds like through a POV character, if it's important. One word pronounced a certain way can establish accent. Or just establish it. "Mike's Jamaican accent surprised Sally, who thought he was born in Brooklyn." "Little Joe had never met anyone from Britain before." The reader will hear the accents when they speak.

There are so many more subtle ways to express accent than phonetic spelling.

ETA: After re-reading the OP, one or two line of dialogue written phonetically wouldn't be a deal-breaker. But you can probably avoid it.

"I don't want to climb the hill."

She shook her head. He'd go on and be still? What? "I'm sorry....?"

"I said I don't want to climb the hill."

Or leave out the dialogue until she understands it.

Joe spoke to her. He could have been speaking a different language for all she knew.
 
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Roxxsmom

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I've seen some writers use "phoenetic" spellings for colloquial pronunciations, but it generally works best if A. The writer is very familiar with the dialect at hand, and B. They err on the side of going light.

As others have said, it's hard to wade through strange spellings of words that may not inform the reader's pronunciation (or understanding) as well as the writer thinks they do.

Something to keep in mind is that regional spellings for words are usually the same, yet they are pronounced differently.

For instance, the word "car" is spelled the same in California and Boston, yet people from these different areas will pronounce the word differently. Someone from California might think a Bostonian pronounces the word Caah, while a Bostonian might think a Californian pronounces the word "Carr."

There are a few exceptions, like Aluminum/Aluminium and Airplane/Aeroplane, but in these cases, they really are slightly different words. I'd spell these particular words the British way if the speaker or pov is British and the American way if the speaker in American.
 
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Osulagh

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I hate-hate-hate phonetic spelling.
I too.

I could see sometimes using it, rarely, with a few exceptions to get a short point across. But if it's used repeatedly--no matter how lightly used--it'll grate fast for me.
 

CrastersBabies

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Never for me as well. It kills the flow and I'm done.
 

blacbird

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DO NOT. Except for the very occasional word, perhaps. But you really do have to understand that "standard" English, as it is now conventionally spelled, as anything but "phonetic." If you aren't aware of this, say these words aloud:

Tough
Trough
Through
Thorough
Bought
Bough
To
Too
Two
You
Yew
Ewe

I could go on for a long time, but I'll spare the audience the tedium. DO NOT get into the morasse of trying to spell stuff "phonetically." Just don't. Now, go write yer story.

caw
 

ThatWolfAgain

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Hmmm, I seem to be in the vast minority here but I love it when it's done correctly. Correctly means sparingly, and it's something I do often in my own work (though only with dialects I'm extremely familiar with, meaning southwestern Virginia and southern West Virginia). If you really want it in there I'd err on the side of sparseness and then get feedback on how it's working.

Sometimes I'll also do the thing where I spell it normally and then add, "It came out sounding like _____." This is my usual tactic for drunk speak.
 

AngelsAvengeMe

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I hate-hate-hate phonetic spelling. It's really hard to read.

What I vastly prefer is to be told about the character's strong accent by how others react to is when s/he speaks, then a telling word or two to remind me that accent's always there.

"Come on, sugar, you know it'll be fine." Southern, right?
"Y'all coming to the pig roast?" Texas.
"Dude, you totally have to pay for that!" SoCal.

And so on. Just pick a pet word or phrase which is typical of your accent and use it here and there. Don't hit the reader over the head with it, just provide reminders when it's been a while.

Maryn, who doesn't have an accent (isn't that what we all think?)


This!
 

BethS

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I've seen some examples of this working in both ways, sometimes it paints the perfect picture, other times it becomes jarring.

What are your opinions?

Use a very light touch with phonetic spelling--the occasional word, not whole sentences--and otherwise rely on word choice and syntax. Syntax is huge.
 

VoireyLinger

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Phonetic dialogue is messy and hard to read. We may learn to read phonetically, but once we know a word we become a sight reader. If the look of that word is off, we have to stop and sound it out. As Maryn said, dialect is your friend.

The only time I want to see phonetic spellings is when the POV character isn't supposed to understand the speaker and inserting a "s/he mumbled something incoherent" would mess with the flow of that particular passage. Even then, it should be limited to the one line and used with extreme caution.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I hate-hate-hate phonetic spelling. It's really hard to read.

"Y'all coming to the pig roast?" Texas.

Nope, not Texas. At least no more than it applies to several southern states, and really less. "Y'all" is pure southern, and Texas prefers beef barbecue. The rest of the south prefers pig roast.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Phonetic dialogue is like anything else. Do it well enough, and it's fine. Do it poorly, or overdo it, and it's garbage.
 

DancingMaenid

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I think phonetic accents work best when it's supposed to come across as exaggerated or cliched, which works best in humor. But then, of course, you want to be careful about stereotyping ethnic groups.

When I read something like "Vat do you vant to eet?" I don't really imagine someone with an accent. I imagine an exaggerated stereotype of a Russian accent or something.
 

CrastersBabies

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I think phonetic accents work best when it's supposed to come across as exaggerated or cliched, which works best in humor. But then, of course, you want to be careful about stereotyping ethnic groups.

When I read something like "Vat do you vant to eet?" I don't really imagine someone with an accent. I imagine an exaggerated stereotype of a Russian accent or something.

Yeah, that does look like someone mocking another accent. Hahaha. (cringes)

I really hate phonetic dialogue. It makes my soul cry. Kitten tears. Mew mew mew.....

crying-cat.gif
 

Renee J

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Phonetic spelling gives me flashbacks to grade school and having to read Mark Twain. Yes, American classic, I know, but I am not a fan. It was like tying to decipher code sometimes, and that's still how I feel about phonetic dialogue.

Yes, this. I had to read all of Jim's dialogue in Adventures of Huckleberry Finn out loud to understand what he said.
 

Lil

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When is it appropriate to use phonetic spelling during dialogue?

Please don't. Just don't.
I doubt I am the only reader out there who will pick up a book, open it, see phonetic spelling, and put it right back down.
All you have to do is say that X spoke with a strong or incomprehensible accent.
 

M.S. Wiggins

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It has to be done well, and with purpose. Mark Twain's, Jim, was a slave. Possibly, Twain envisioned Jim speaking Gullah. If so, I assure you that the dialect was toned down considerably.

Example of Gullah language as said by a slave: '“Oh, Fada, puhtek me fom dese yuh schemy buckruh plateye,” he mumbles..."'

Translation: 'Oh, Father (God), protect me from these here tricky, white-people ghosts.'

If the writer has a purpose for using ethnic/phonetic dialogue, then it can be well-received by most readers. My thoughts? If you use it, do it well and have a reason for it.
 

hellbee

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I'm going to tackle this subject in terms of AAVE and Gullah dialects given that Mark Twain has come up in this thread. Some people find phonetically spelled renditions of AAVE and Gullah are offensive and some people find that they are respectful. It honestly depends on the time period, the character, the rest of the characters in the story, and the framing.

For instance, if you were to write a black character with a phonetically spelled accent, whether or not that's going to upset people is generally going to lie in how respectful you are of that character outside of their accent. If they're a token character, and the rest of your characters are white without phonetically spoken accents (effectively marking your POC exclusively through the way that they speak and "otherizing" them), and negative stereotypes are present in your presentation of the character, it's going to be pretty much flat out racist. If your only motivation for phonetically spelling out an AAVE or Gullah accent is to differentiate them from your white characters in an ignorant manner, you're doing something wrong.

However, there are times, such as in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, where I feel like it would almost be more disrespectful not to include how that character speaks. Additionally, when you have more than just one representation of POC and they're treated like human beings instead of brownie points for diversity or lazy tropes or you have done extensive research into the culture, I feel like that's a different matter. It really all lies in how respectful you are of the character and the culture they come from. I am, however, white, and there's a good chance I don't know what I'm talking about.

There's another discussion to be had about the various different English accents and the political connotation behind spelling them phonetically. Classism is much more pronounced in England than it is in America, and accents are linked very tightly with that. Phonetically spelling different English accents could be a very easy cheat to mark where someone is from or to mark their class, but you walk a fine line with the latter option - it comes down, again, to your respectfulness to that character and their narrative and the culture they come from.

So, when it comes to the politics of it, it really does lie in the writer. If the writer is bigoted (even subconsciously or accidentally bigoted), it's going to come across as bigoted. If the writer is spelling it phonetically because they're trying to alienate that accent as "weird", it's going to come across that way. It depends entirely on the writer and the context and the framing of the novel.

Now that I've got that out of my system, there's an entirely different discussion to be had with whether or not it should be used for practical purposes:
1. You risk slowing the pace of your story.
2. Phonetically spelled accents are not translatable to other languages.
3. It may drive readers away; many people set a book down if a phonetically spelled accent is too frequently used/overwhelming.

My advice to you is to consider the practical arguments and the political arguments. Talk to people with Jamaican accents - this is the internet, you can find anyone anywhere - and ask how they feel about what it is that you have written. Consider how often this character shows up. Think very critically about why you want to write the accent phonetically, how you treat the character, and how you treat that character's culture.
 

shelleyo

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So, when it comes to the politics of it, it really does lie in the writer. If the writer is bigoted (even subconsciously or accidentally bigoted), it's going to come across as bigoted. If the writer is spelling it phonetically because they're trying to alienate that accent as "weird", it's going to come across that way. It depends entirely on the writer and the context and the framing of the novel.

This is important. Also, if the writer is simply ignorant of the real dialect, maybe even the culture behind it at times, that will show, too.

I've not often run across dialect written in a way I found really offensive (though it has happened). For me, it all boils down to whether it throws up a barrier between me and the fictive dream.

I think, "It's apposed to go there, Mommy, not over there" gets the cute of a child's speech across far better than "it's apposed do go dere, Mommy, nop ober der" even though the second example might get a lot closer to the reality of it.

It's all about clarity.
 

CrastersBabies

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I think, "It's apposed to go there, Mommy, not over there" gets the cute of a child's speech across far better than "it's apposed do go dere, Mommy, nop ober der" even though the second example might get a lot closer to the reality of it.

It's all about clarity.

I agree with this. The second one makes me cringe. Like, outwardly cringe.
 
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