Accents

Calliea · Jun 30, 2014

I'm wondering if there are some obvious ways to differentiate accents in speech without calling them by the name or mentioning in the narration at all. And by that I don't mean writing the words with 's, chucking away parts of them and making everything look very stylized - I know about those techniques.

What made me wonder was seeing the word "shite" written for a character who was to be heard as British. There's also the word "bloody", afaik that's often read that way as well.

And so I'm curious - are there more of such? How about different accents, are there some obvious words/spellings/sayings that give them out without cutting parts of the words and making them hassle-some to read?

jaksen · Jun 30, 2014

Mark Twain did this - writing phonetically the way his characters speak or sound. So did other 19th century writers when trying to give a feel or sound to their characters who used a certain dialect. I think modern writers (and readers) aren't as crazy about this, though.

I read a lot of Martha Grimes and she also does this, though, and she's a modern or current writer (of mysteries.)

I think modern writers prefer to use words like: 'in a southern drawl,' or 'with a Boston accent,' etc. Then we have to assume the readers know what that sounds like, I guess.

briannasealock · Jun 30, 2014

if your mc is from a certain area of the world they'll most likely use local slang. My mom grew up in the south, and she uses lots of Southern phrases. So people ask my parents and us if we're from the South when we (the kids) have lived in the state all of our lives. I use 'all ya'll" and my mom uses "ya'll" this is "you guys" but all ya'll is for more than "you guys". like a whole room of people.

Anyway, I live in Colorado. But only people who moved here says the "o" myself and those I've been around who have grown up here replace the o with an a so it's 'Colorada" like apple. I sometimes say Winda or Winder and my mom has said Warsh (as in wash) every once in a while.

So it's really the region of the world you need to research to find out the local slang.

British is gonna be somewhat confusing because of all the Accents. Shite is pretty British along with bloody (though you wouldn't use it in front of your grandmother) and the same with Bugger. Those words are pretty soft core for us American's who want an alternative to cursing. But in British those are actual curse words and in polite society wouldn't be said.

I heard that the British audience for POTC 2, when Captain Jack was getting swallowed by the Krakan and he was chained to the mast. Everyone was pretty aghast at his cursing be causing he said Bugger like 17 something times. I found that hilarious.

Okay sorry. Total tangent. But yeah. Local slang will help with accents. I think.

Jerboa · Jun 30, 2014

Bugger and bloody really aren't bad curse words here at all!

I can always tell when an author is from the US even though the character is supposed to be British from the way they write swearing. (I was browsing the 'look inside' thing on Amazon the other day and came across a supposedly English character saying 'what the bloody f*ck.' I Googled and yep, author was from the US. Badly written accents instantly turn me off.)

I wouldn't attempt to write an accent unless I was really familiar with it.

If you are familiar with an accent, then you should be able to make it work easily with simple things like sentence structure and word usage. (Very simple things such as "I've to go out" vs "I've got to go out" for example).

If you're not familiar then the 'he spoke with an American accent' might work best. Or, the local slang thing but I'd get a beta from the area you're character's from to make sure it's right!

Calliea · Jun 30, 2014

Actually I am mostly curious about whether there are options to write recognizable accents that originate from other countries.

My story isn't set in our world, so descriptions including anything that's connected to a real-world region or country are impossible, and going by different American accents wouldn't make much sense.

I'm after flavor, though I'm not sure I'll go for it in the end, so just treat this question as something coming out of curiosity more than necessity

Jerboa said:
If you are familiar with an accent, then you should be able to make it work easily with simple things like sentence structure and word usage. (Very simple things such as "I've to go out" vs "I've got to go out" for example).

It's exactly those kinds of things that I'm curious about. The differences in structure, some words used here, but not elsewhere. I've never paid much attention to accents before I started writing, so my bank is void, I'm curious about those bits and pieces others might've picked up

~

On a total side-note, I remember I once confused the word "bugger" with word "bug" (or thought they were the same? I can't remember anymore), which led to quite silly conversation as I told someone I would bugger them with <something> later

mirandashell · Jun 30, 2014

I think we need to know which accent or accents you are thinking of. Each one has a slightly different structure and slang so without knowing it's hard to say.

Amie Dore · Jun 30, 2014

I'm from the UK too and have to say *shite* doesn't necessarily work for all areas in the UK. Generically maybe but where I live it is barely used.

I think the idea of Jerboa to get someone from that area to beta your work. Going generic on accents that are say British is like saying that there is no difference between accents from different areas in the US or any other country.

Dialect and accent can be so unique depending on era etc accent and word usage might even be different in the same family. To give you an idea my father and his brother have a different accent and word usage to their sisters. Ages from 75 to 85, why the difference the sisters of the family spent the first part of their working careers in cotton mills the males worked in Engineering.

Another example of this is my mum and her siblings she has a different accent to her brothers and sisters, this is because of the school she went to from 11 to 16.

I think the key thing is don't end up with a dodgy Dick Van Dyke ala Mary Poppins and really annoy a huge potential market for your writing.

Mr Flibble · Jun 30, 2014

Bugger and bloody are pretty mild here too -- you might not say them in front of the queen, but they get used quite a lot.

Shite is a more Northern word so would place the speaker from there (most probably the North East I think -- that's definitely the region of the people I hear using it).

As Miranda said, we'd need to know which accent you're talking about and then maybe we can help with word choice.

mirandashell · Jun 30, 2014

I always thought 'shite' was Irish, as in 'gobshite'.

DanielaTorre · Jun 30, 2014

As far as I know, it's acceptable (in moderation) in kid lit, not so much YA and up.

Mr Flibble · Jun 30, 2014

mirandashell said:
I always thought 'shite' was Irish, as in 'gobshite'.

Oh yes that region too! But I hear it a lot from Geordies.

And ofc there's the fact in some areas it's quite usual to greet someone with a friendly "Hello you old cunt". We're a little more genteel around here. We greet our besties with "bastard"

mirandashell · Jun 30, 2014

Ooh...... big wince over here!

snafu1056 · Jun 30, 2014

If you dont want to write it out phonetically, one way to suggest an accent is to have it be reflected in the people around the character. Maybe have them comment on the accent or tease the character about it. Assuming its an unusual accent for the setting, people would comment on it anyway.

I had a character with a heavy Eastern European accent, but I didnt want to write stuff like "Vhat are you doink?!"(for obvious reasons), so I just made her friends imitate and tease her mercilessly for it. It gets the point across.

Jerboa · Jun 30, 2014

Calliea said:
It's exactly those kinds of things that I'm curious about. The differences in structure, some words used here, but not elsewhere. I've never paid much attention to accents before I started writing, so my bank is void, I'm curious about those bits and pieces others might've picked up

So you're after a new accent for your own world/culture as it were? Maybe just experiment with different sentence structures until you get a good rhythm or sound. You might still end up having an accent that sounds like something which would/could/does exist on Earth somewhere!

For example, Yoda's accent? All that backwards talking he does? It's meant to be unique to him, right? But I have a Polish friend who's told me before now that I sound like a pirate Yoda.

Anna Spargo-Ryan · Jun 30, 2014

Mr Flibble said:
Oh yes that region too! But I hear it a lot from Geordies.

And ofc there's the fact in some areas it's quite usual to greet someone with a friendly "Hello you old cunt". We're a little more genteel around here. We greet our besties with "bastard"

We do this too, in the colonies

In answer to the original question, I think if you're going to try to inject slang as a means to place someone regionally, you need to be very familiar with it. It's almost dialect, in some parts of the world (especially in the UK, I think), and those people you're trying to imitate will know in an instant if you're faking it. I've cringed through many an "Australian" character drinking a bloody Fosters.

Where I've had reason to differentiate one accent from another, I've included it briefly in the narrative, like:

"Hello." She spoke with a lilt, mouth not fully open. Irish? "Scottish," she said.

I think it's a rare occasion that calls for much more than that.

ThatWolfAgain · Jun 30, 2014

I think phrases specific to your characters origins would work well, since we're talking other-world; have you read Stephen King's Dark Tower series? He does this here, and people in different regions speak differently.

For instance: people in Megis* say Aye, and ye, and thee whereas Roland who is from Gilead says yes, and you and such.

Some phrases:
"Cry your pardon"
"May it do ya"
"hear me, I beg"
"long days and pleasant nights" (different areas have other variations)
and so on. The story allows you identify the phrases with characters from particular regions, and sometimes characters will remark on strange ways of speaking.

*hopefully I'm not misspelling town names, it's been awhile since I've read them in dead tree version. (vs. audiobook)

Karen Junker · Jun 30, 2014

I agree about the Yoda example -- just have the characters who are supposed to be from a certain place have a different cadence and syntax. If you'd like an example, read any of Joanna Bourne's books -- she is a master at this.

SpiteLokidottir · Jun 30, 2014

I use accents in speech all the time. Not overbearingly, but little bits here and there to show the reader where the character is from. It helps make the separate the voices and makes it easier to tell who's speaking. I really don't like it when a load of characters all sound the same.

Albedo · Jun 30, 2014

I think we're talking 'bout dialect, not just accent (the phonological character of a particular dialect). That said, I agree with all the advice here that you should identify a dialect through word choice, colloquialisms, and if you want, a smattering of elisions, glottal stops, etc. but not wholesale 'phonetic' dialogue. I can do a much better job of imagining an (e.g.) Irish accent than most authors could do trying to transcribe one.

Lillith1991 · Jun 30, 2014

I haven't had the chance to write anything original which uses an accent. I have family who live down south and that thing about dropping the "g" in certain words is true for my relatives that live in Florida and Georgia. Never in my life have I heard my Aunt who is my namesake say darling, she says darlin'. She and other relatives shave the "g" off of choice words, and occassionally say things like warsh instead of wash.

When doing an accent, you have to not only use little tricks like that but also slang and the way words are put together to. Things like "down south," instead of "in the south" etc. This type of thing should really be done for any kind of accent, not just southern.

NRoach · Jul 1, 2014

Jerboa said:
So you're after a new accent for your own world/culture as it were? Maybe just experiment with different sentence structures until you get a good rhythm or sound. You might still end up having an accent that sounds like something which would/could/does exist on Earth somewhere!

For example, Yoda's accent? All that backwards talking he does? It's meant to be unique to him, right? But I have a Polish friend who's told me before now that I sound like a pirate Yoda.

Yoda's speech based on japanese is; subject-object-verb, roughly.

Jerboa · Jul 1, 2014

NRoach said:
Yoda's speech based on japanese is; subject-object-verb, roughly.

Ah, well there you go! And I'm not Japanese. (My Polish friend caught me saying something like Bloody starving, I am! which, now I've written it, sounds a little Welsh too).

Out of interest, has anybody read Glitterland by Alexis Hall? One character is an Essex boy and his dialogue is written phonetically. I didn't think I'd like it, but I loved it and thought it worked really well. However, a friend of mine who I recommended the book to, had to put it down 'cos she couldn't stick it.

calieber · Jul 1, 2014

I don't particularly want to dig it up, but in a NaNo project from a few years ago I had a West Indian side character. I picked one indication of the accent to replicate in text (I think it was "t'" for "th"), and left the rest for the reader to extrapolate. I wouldn't go much farther than that. Now, as a hopefully better writer, I might still do that -- though, making the marker something less intrusive -- but I'd give the lion's share of the work to vocabulary.

One problem with writing accents is that it assumes everyone agrees on the "neutral" form that the accent is a variation on. And then it's dependent on what the writer hears as an accent. A New York accent is the way I normally speak (more or less), so any attempt on my part (pawt?) to perfectly capture it on the page is doomed to failure (failya?) -- I'm going to miss something. My attempt to capture a Boston accent is also doomed, since I'd be noting where it differs from New York, not where it differs from the supposed "neutral".

There's also the possibility of offense, since most regional accents in the U.S. are associated with low intelligence, with the exceptions maybe of Tidewater and certain variations of New England. This is particularly an issue for me as a white writer writing black characters.

paddismac · Jul 1, 2014

Maybe I'm just using this thread to vent a little, but I get irrationally annoyed when I hear someone mention a "Southern accent".

In truth, there is no all-inclusive Southern accent. The speech of residents of coastal North Carolina is noticeably distinguishable from that of a local from rural Mississippi.

What is known as the "generic" Southern accent heard frequently on popular television programming (sitcoms, I'm looking at you) represents no one whom I've ever spoken to in any region of the American South, and is the reason that Southerners are thought by many to be a bunch of inbred, barefoot half-wits who don't possess three teeth between them.

I'm sure there are many regions of many different countries who can say the same of the stereotyping of their own language or dialect.

OK, rant over.

NRoach · Jul 1, 2014

Jerboa said:
Ah, well there you go! And I'm not Japanese. (My Polish friend caught me saying something like Bloody starving, I am! which, now I've written it, sounds a little Welsh too).

Oh god it does, doesn't it? I read it in a welsh accent, and it just fits so perfectly.

Apparently Yoda is also part welsh, from Dagobah's valleys.

Accents

Hush, hush...

Caped Codder

frelled

Hush, hush...

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

...

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

frelled

Just pokin' about

Live a little. Write a lot.

Alex

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

frelled

Couth barbarian

Parasite free since '09