Is this an Info Dump?

RaggedEdge · May 24, 2013

I'm writing a YA realistic fantasy/adventure. It includes a fair amount of mystery. There's a chapter one third of the way into it in which a group of students have a meeting with an authority figure (AF). The chapter is about 12 pages and 7 are devoted to dialogue in which the AF reveals important details about the mystery the students have previously stumbled upon without understanding, and the students reveal a few details of their own. It includes some back story. The details are central to the plot and to uncovering more about the AF. I'm mainly concerned that 7 pages is too long, esp in YA. It's 2000 words.

I think many books have a moment or two like this that is several pages, and I'll be studying those to see what works and what doesn't, but I just feel better getting other opinions.

Your thoughts?

randi.lee · May 24, 2013

Depending on how it's done, and whether or not you have the reader hooked yet (aka, don't make this chapter two) I say it's doable.

kyocrisis · May 24, 2013

How many words?

Is it interesting? If I feel like I am being sat down and explained something, as the reader, I wouldn't like that.

You should consider if that 7 pages is intrusive to the story, or if it feels natural and flows easily into and out of it.

RaggedEdge · May 24, 2013

kyocrisis said:
How many words?

Yeah, just thought to add that. The 7 pages are 2000 words.

job · May 24, 2013

RaggedEdge said:
7 [pages] are devoted to dialogue in which the AF reveals important details about the mystery

This sounds like a Talking-Heads-Exchanging-Information scene.
I have a blog post with tips on how to make such a scene somewhat less horrendous than it would otherwise be. Here.

Basically I advise (1) have something else happening in the scene and (2) filter the information through the reaction of the characters.

mirandashell · May 24, 2013

If it's interesting, it's part of the story. If it's dull, it's an info dump. So make sure it's interesting.

Kerosene · May 24, 2013

Depends. Are you doing as if the characters would naturally do it, or are you doing it for the reader's sake?

RaggedEdge · May 24, 2013

WillSauger said:
Depends. Are you doing as if the characters would naturally do it, or are you doing it for the reader's sake?

Will, thanks. They would naturally do it - the students got caught breaking the rules and the AF is very interested in what they discovered.

JoB, yes it's a Talking-Head-Exchange lol. Your blog post looks helpful. I'll be reading it. Thank you for sharing!

Kyocrisis, I have tried to make it interesting, although I'll be considering ways to make it moreso.

acockey · May 24, 2013

I agree with Job... talking heads is bad, but if it has to be in there for you then keep it. If you can have it be discovered by the students without it having to be said out loud that might be better. But most YA i've read does the whole "disseminate how it's gonna be through dialogue" thing

cnhull · May 24, 2013

"Is this an info dump?"

I kinda feel like if you have to ask; yes.

Diomedes · May 24, 2013

It's impossible to tell without having read it. However, from your description I'm inclined to say no it isn't an info dump because it sounds important for the time and place of the novel. But it all depends on how you work it.

RaggedEdge · May 24, 2013

cnhull said:
"Is this an info dump?"

I kinda feel like if you have to ask; yes.

I disagree. I'm learning the craft and asking for better understanding and guidance. "The only stupid question is the question you don't ask."

Bufty · May 24, 2013

Make sure all the questions in the scene are genuine questions within the story context and questions the characters would genuinely ask (i.e. they really would have no idea what the answer is to the question) , and not dreamed-up questions simply to allow you to dump information via whoever is doing the answering.

And choose the words carefully in the dialogue so as to keep the flow going - don't be sidetracked into long answers just because you know the information.

Good luck

mirandashell · May 24, 2013

You're right, Raggededge. Never been afraid to ask the question.

dchisholm125 · May 24, 2013

An infodump is more just verbal diarrhea of backstory... I wasnotorious for doing this, but I restrain myself nowadays.

Sounds like talking heads, and I have nothing to add except it can be done successfully as Bufty and job have outlined already.

If you spend seven pages to tell us the history of your world.... that's an infodump, if you spend seven pages forwarding the plot while spewing out tidbits of history here and there... that's just good writing

Animad345 · May 24, 2013

From what you've added, OP, it sounds relatively natural. If the scene is essential to the rest of the novel and requires the characters to divulge certain information... what's the harm? Just make sure you read it through properly. Make sure that it doesn't sound contrived and that all the characters sound like they would do normally.

Hope this helps at all.

Lady Ice · May 24, 2013

Just make sure that it really is for the other characters' benefit and not yours or the readers.

ChrisElfy · May 24, 2013

I'd need to read it to really tell. It does depend on the characters I feel. If any of them are fond of exposition then it may feel totally natural for this to happen. If it just comes out of the blue then it's probably wrong and may need to look at disseminating the information more gradually rather than all at once over this 2,000 or so words.

Lady Ice · May 25, 2013

I would also think about how this information really changes the playing-field. Try and give each character a stake in telling/being told this story. For example, does one hope to gain the AF's trust by giving details? Is one plotting to use the AF's information to go off and do something bad?

It doesn't have to be something extreme but they do need clear motivations that aren't simply filling each other in on what has happened.

As for whether it's natural or not, the question is more about whether it is unnatural rather than natural. Naturally they would probably ramble on for ages but that doesn't make an interesting story.

BlueBunny · May 25, 2013

It depends. If you keep it interesting then it should be fine! Try having another person read it, they'll give you a better perspective! If it doesn't work out you could always tie the info/backstories with the main story later on

cnhull · May 25, 2013

RaggedEdge said:
I disagree. I'm learning the craft and asking for better understanding and guidance. "The only stupid question is the question you don't ask."

I wasn't trying to imply your question was stupid. I was trying to answer your question. (I assumed a host of answers was what you were expecting when you posted the question.)

The answers you receive will all be subjective and as others have said it's very hard to answer without having read the material. You, as the author, are the ultimate authority so there's no need to defend yourself from me or anyone else.

Best of luck.

RaggedEdge · May 25, 2013

BlueBunny said:
Try having another person read it, they'll give you a better perspective!

I did ask my 12yo daughter a week or so after she'd read it if she remembered feeling bogged down or bored anywhere in that part of the story and she said no (and I believe she was being honest). However, I'll have a more objective person read it as well. Thanks!

cnhull said:
I wasn't trying to imply your question was stupid. I was trying to answer your question. (I assumed a host of answers was what you were expecting when you posted the question.)

The answers you receive will all be subjective and as others have said it's very hard to answer without having read the material. You, as the author, are the ultimate authority so there's no need to defend yourself from me or anyone else.

Best of luck.

Thanks. I think I understand what you meant. Best of luck to you, too.

Everyone--thanks for your thoughts. They really have helped. I feel more confident about what I've written.

DennisB · May 26, 2013

7 pages (2000 words) does sound like a lot. There are vehicles, such as the journalist being brought up to date; the new romantic interest being clued in, maybe even the MC needing to learn something and querying the AF (sounds like this is what you're doing). But again, 2000 words is a lot.

James D. Macdonald · May 26, 2013

Check the Council of Elrond chapter in The Lord of the Rings.

RaggedEdge · May 27, 2013

James D. Macdonald said:
Check the Council of Elrond chapter in The Lord of the Rings.

Right! That was the very thing I thought of when I stepped back to wonder if I could have a scene like this... and why I pulled The Fellowship of the Ring off my bookshelf and carried it to my desk only to forget to study it in my oft-interrupted life.

Then again, since I'm writing for readers in our attention-compromised era (and young readers at that), it may not apply as a qualifying example in this case.

Thanks for your input.

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