Not sure what this modifies...

rainsmom · May 21, 2013

A friend and I are debating this sentence:

XX helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve your communications goals through a comprehensive range of services that include strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications and much more.

Should it be include or includes? I can't figure out if the clause modifies services or range.

cornflake · May 21, 2013

rainsmom said:
A friend and I are debating this sentence:

XX helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve your communications goals through a comprehensive range of services that include strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications and much more.

Should it be include or includes? I can't figure out if the clause modifies services or range.

A range that includes.

The 'your' is wonky, imo. I'd excise that.

snc84 · May 21, 2013

I am in no way good at this stuff but... I would speculate the core of the sentence is: Achieve your goals through services that include...
I don't think "range" is necessary for the simplified sentence.

I don't know what that means for the include/includes decision.

evilrooster · May 21, 2013

I'd probably go for "a range of services, including", not so much to get away from the temptation to make "includes" agree with "services" (which is wrong), as because it's a little less wordy.

But I'd probably add a "their" for industry awareness, and turn that "your" into another "their".

And I'd add a serial comma after "mobile applications", because I'm that kind of chicken.

Susan Coffin · May 21, 2013

My opinion: "include," because services is what is being modified. "a range of" is not necessary, and even wordy.

Bufty · May 21, 2013

I wondered if it should be 'achieves' instead of 'achieve'. Achieves would go with include.

It seems that it is implied that XX both helps and achieves....

Not the most professional of ads.

King Neptune · May 21, 2013

I agree that there are several probals with that sentence. If XX does consulting in communications and uses that sentence to attempt to attract customers, then I would not be one of their clients. But the evilrooster was right about the specific question.

Susan Coffin · May 21, 2013

I agree that the entire sentence is not well written. Here we go with an edit:

XX helps private and public-sector clients achieve communication goals through comprehensive services including, but not limited to, communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, and mobile applications.

LA*78 · May 21, 2013

^ what they all said. My reason for saying 'include' instead of 'includes' is because you have collected all of the services into a single grouping, ie 'a range of services'. I prefer the suggestion of using 'including' instead of 'that include' though.

evilrooster · May 23, 2013

Not to

, but I can't leave something actually wrong here for the ages.

LA*78 said:
My reason for saying 'include' instead of 'includes' is because you have collected all of the services into a single grouping, ie 'a range of services'.

Yes. A single range. Singular. It takes a singular verb, which is "includes".

I prefer the suggestion of using 'including' instead of 'that include' though.

I think it reads more smoothly.

Dawnstorm · May 23, 2013

evilrooster said:
Yes. A single range. Singular. It takes a singular verb, which is "includes".

Is it that obvious though? I can see two different syntactic readings:

[a range of services] [that includes...]

[a range] [of services that include]

It's either a particular range, or a range of particular services.

rainsmom · May 23, 2013

Thanks everyone! Honestly, I have no idea where the sentence was found or in what capacity it appears. It's related to the work a friend of mine is doing. She asked me about include or includes... didn't even occur to me to see if the sentence could be rewritten. I was too caught up in the grammar puzzle.

Again -- thank you!

JChandlerOates · Jun 1, 2013

rainsmom said:
XX helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve your communications goals through a comprehensive range of services that include strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications and much more.

Should it be include or includes? I can't figure out if the clause modifies services or range.

instead of "that include", it should be "which includes".

JulianneQJohnson · Jun 1, 2013

JChandlerOates said:
instead of "that include", it should be "which includes".

Really? Isn't it "that includes?" I am now cunfuzzled.

I want the one that has the list of things.

I want the one which has something specific the others do not have.

Which is correct, that or which?

King Neptune · Jun 3, 2013

JulianneQJohnson said:
Really? Isn't it "that includes?" I am now cunfuzzled.

I want the one that has the list of things.

I want the one which has something specific the others do not have.

Which is correct, that or which?

That would be better, but "which" is not incorrect.

WriteMinded · Jun 3, 2013

rainsmom said:
A friend and I are debating this sentence:

XX helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve your communications goals through a comprehensive range of services that include strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications and much more.

Should it be include or includes? I can't figure out if the clause modifies services or range.

IMHO:
XX helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve goals through a range of services that include strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications and much more.

Oh yeah. Include is the right word.

But I'd add the comma after applications. But I like commas.

Chase · Jun 3, 2013

I agree with the red chick (and others): go with including and opt for the optional (but always correct) Oxford comma: . . . helps private- and public-sector clients enhance industry awareness and achieve goals through a range of services, including strategic communications, advertising, public relations, website design, interactive marketing, social media, mobile applications, and much more.

However, if you go with include or includes, it has to be includes, because the verb form follows singular range. Services is just the object of the preposition.

Or does it make any difference to nitpick it in a changing language where other singulars and plurals are mixed? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Oops, I mixed fowls. Sorry.

blacbird · Jun 3, 2013

"includes"

But it's a horrible sentence that begs for rewriting and perhaps being split into two more comprehensible ones, which is the reason the question arises in the first place. I had to read it three times to figure it out. The least of its problems is grammatical correctness.

caw

JChandlerOates · Jun 3, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianneQJohnson

Really? Isn't it "that includes?" I am now cunfuzzled.

I want the one that has the list of things.

I want the one which has something specific the others do not have.

Which is correct, that or which?

That would be better, but "which" is not incorrect.

King Neptune said:
That would be better, but "which" is not incorrect.

from my computer's dictionary:
USAGE In U.S. English, it is usually recommended that which be employed only for nonrestrictive (or nonessential) clauses: : the horse, which is in the paddock, is six years old (the : which clause contains a nonessential fact, noted in passing; the horse would be six years old wherever it was). A : that clause is restrictive (or essential), as it identifies a particular thing: : the horse that is in the paddock is six years old (not any horse, but the one in the paddock).

Not sure what this modifies...

rainsmom

Feeling like an old timer

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

snc84

evilrooster

Wicked chicken

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

King Neptune

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

LA*78

evilrooster

Wicked chicken

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

rainsmom

Feeling like an old timer

JChandlerOates

JulianneQJohnson

Ferret Herder

King Neptune

WriteMinded

Derailed

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

blacbird

JChandlerOates