Science Fiction Ship class: Are they standard?

AndreF · May 16, 2013

I'm wondering if the class of ships in science fiction are somewhat standard.

For instance if an author mentions a capital class ship does everyone automatically assume its a big vessel?

Or when an author mentions a dreadnaught does everyone assume its much much larger than other capital class ships?

I have some specs of a ship I've created (working off of United States Naval vessels).

I was just wondering what your thoughts were and as always I really appreciate any input one may have to offer. Thank you for your patience I realize I've exceeded my question limit for the month.

benbenberi · May 16, 2013

If the story seems to be basing its ship categories on real-world navies, there's probably a presumption that if real-world ship terminology is used there's meant to be a parallel with the real-world meaning, e.g. relative sizes, functions, etc.

Beyond that, no, there's nothing standard.

(And depending on your intended audience, they may or may not carry over a great deal of knowledge from the real world to your fiction -- so when you introduce the concept of a "capital class ship" or a "dreadnaught" you should probably define your terms for the uninitiated anyway.)

Myrealana · May 16, 2013

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/spaceship-size-comparison-chart.gif

I'd say - not at all.

AndreF · May 16, 2013

Myrealana said:
http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/spaceship-size-comparison-chart.gif

I'd say - not at all.

I was looking for something like that thank you.

benbenben said:
If the story seems to be basing its ship categories on real-world navies, there's probably a presumption that if real-world ship terminology is used there's meant to be a parallel with the real-world meaning, e.g. relative sizes, functions, etc.

Beyond that, no, there's nothing standard.

(And depending on your intended audience, they may or may not carry over a great deal of knowledge from the real world to your fiction -- so when you introduce the concept of a "capital class ship" or a "dreadnaught" you should probably define your terms for the uninitiated anyway.)

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'll figure out some neat non immersion ways of describing the ships I wish to use.

Bufty · May 16, 2013

Describing a ship as of the capital class means whatever it means in the society concerned and if I don't know exactly what it means in the society concerned it means nothing to me other than the ship is of a capital class - whatever that's supposed to mean.

See? Clarity is everything :snoopy:

Reziac · May 16, 2013

As I've been using it in my space opera... it's probably clear enough in context because of what happens around or aboard various craft, so I haven't really gotten into specifics. But:

Heavy cruiser is my big battlewagon, basically the space equivalent of an aircraft carrier. (Relatively slow; in my universe, smaller is faster.) It's mainly used as a command platform and mobile dock sufficient to handle most smaller ships.

Light cruiser is its little brother, probably a third the size, but with some general docking capacity and otherwise sufficient for major action.

Destroyer is my workaday warship of smaller size, a general-purpose patrol and combat ship with only minor docking capacity (a couple dozen interceptors). Considerably faster than its larger kin (less mass and higher engine/mass ratio). The preferred vessel for most 'situations'.

Interceptor: one-man fighter, probably a little smaller than a Terranan fighter jet. (Hyperspace-capable.)

Here's a quick overview, should you wish to use terminology parallel to the mundane:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061109034859AAf7dYW

Here's some specs:
http://www.navy.com/about/equipment/vessels/cruisers.html
more:
http://www.navy.com/about/equipment/vessels.html
and
http://www.chuckhawks.com/glossary_naval.htm

dpaterso · May 16, 2013

Falcon said:
For instance if an author mentions a capital class ship does everyone automatically assume its a big vessel?

Yes, a capital ship is a big heavily armed mofo and possibly leads a battle group. A superiority of capital ships likely decides the outcome of any engagement.

Falcon said:
Or when an author mentions a dreadnaught does everyone assume its much much larger than other capital class ships?

A dreadnought is a new class of battle wagon, ahead of the competition in terms of armament, until it's equaled or superseded by enemy developments.

The above gleaned from reading many space opera novels and series over the years. It's how I interpret the terms, anyway.

-Derek

WriterTrek · May 16, 2013

In general I'd say that yeah, people are going to go into things with some assumptions if you are using familiar terms. Either way you should clarify in your story (I think), because you want to clear things up for people without assumptions and confirm what the others already know.

If you don't want to deal with that at all just come up with new words/phrases for your ships.

yttar · May 16, 2013

dpaterso said:
Yes, a capital ship is a big heavily armed mofo and possibly leads a battle group. A superiority of capital ships likely decides the outcome of any engagement.

A dreadnought is a new class of battle wagon, ahead of the competition in terms of armament, until it's equaled or superseded by enemy developments.

The above gleaned from reading many space opera novels and series over the years. It's how I interpret the terms, anyway.

-Derek

I haven't read much space opera, but this is about how I'd define the terms as well.

Yttar

Orianna2000 · May 16, 2013

I'm a sci-fi geek, but I prefer soft sci-fi, not hard. If I read a book that called a ship a "capital-class," I wouldn't have a clue what that meant. Same for "dreadnaught" or any other class. I don't expect things like that to carry over from other sci-fi novels.

Now, give me a plasma rifle, and sure, I'll have a good idea of what it is and the kind of damage it can do. That's a pretty common item in sci-fi, and even if it wasn't I could guess at it's capabilities. But ship types? Nope. Either define it for me, or if it's not important to the plot, then just accept that some readers won't have a clue. (And some, apparently, will. Just depends on their background and how widely read they are in that specific genre.)

WormHeart · May 16, 2013

I always assume that the more impressive the name, the larger the ship.

Hence Hunters, Wolfs, Scouts, etc are assumed to be small(ish) while Emperator, Titanicus, War-God-Of-Flame-And-Destruction seems to be rather big.

But you need more hints or some readers will get it wrong. If I hear the term Destroyer, I think of the never-ending, larger than life MoFo starship at the intro of Star Wars episode 4. So ... huge.

You know: THIS SCENE.

WormHeart

Reziac · May 16, 2013

WormHeart said:
I always assume that the more impressive the name, the larger the ship.

Hence Hunters, Wolfs, Scouts, etc are assumed to be small(ish) while Emperator, Titanicus, War-God-Of-Flame-And-Destruction seems to be rather big.

I kinda tend to do the same. Tho as you note, the term "destroyer" has been somewhat warped by SW, where everything was bigger!

kuwisdelu · May 16, 2013

I thought a capital ship was the main one with the capital city in it and the seat of government.

Like Island One for the Macross Frontier.

Or is that the capitol ship? I always get the two confused.

TomW22 · May 16, 2013

I'd generally avoid terms like capital ship and cruiser. Just describe the ship - often describing its size can work as a plot device anyway (for instance Alastair Reynolds using the time it takes to fall to the back of a lighthugger to demonstrate its length). If you're writing a kind of Babylon 5 style thing where your fleet has clear stratification of lead ships, support cruisers and smaller craft then introduce that and use it thereafter. But there is no real established meaning of what these 'classes' are.

WormHeart said:
But you need more hints or some readers will get it wrong. If I hear the term Destroyer, I think of the never-ending, larger than life MoFo starship at the intro of Star Wars episode 4. So ... huge.

You know: THIS SCENE.

WormHeart

Of course they did then introduce a ship dozens of times bigger than that one in Empire. Introducing it by way of having it overshadow the star destroyers.

It's hard to replicate that kind of sense of scale in writing. I find the best way really is to give the size a practical implication. "Even riding at 125mph in one of the service pods, it still took us four minutes to reach the aft section." Or a better written equivalent.

kuwisdelu · May 16, 2013

TomW22 said:
It's hard to replicate that kind of sense of scale in writing. I find the best way really is to give the size a practical implication. "Even riding at 125mph in one of the service pods, it still took us four minutes to reach the aft section." Or a better written equivalent.

It's not big to me unless it can throw galaxies like shuriken and punch holes in space-time.

PeteMC · May 17, 2013

You might find this helpful

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardSciFiFleet

WormHeart · May 17, 2013

TomW22 said:
Of course they did then introduce a ship dozens of times bigger than that one in Empire. Introducing it by way of having it overshadow the star destroyers.

In Empire Strikes Back? How about the very same episode.

"That's not a moon ..."

Nothing outshines the Death Star. Nothing!

Lord Hierarch · May 17, 2013

Myrealana said:
http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/spaceship-size-comparison-chart.gif

I'd say - not at all.

This would be better:

http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/index.html

Reziac · May 17, 2013

WormHeart said:
In Empire Strikes Back? How about the very same episode.

"That's not a moon ..."

Nothing outshines the Death Star. Nothing!

Once upon an original film release time, I did some time vs distance guestimating based on the flybys of those annoying little X-wings, and came up with somewhere around 500km diameter. Which would indeed be a small moon.

kuwisdelu · May 17, 2013

PeteMC said:
You might find this helpful

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardSciFiFleet

Lord Hierarch said:
This would be better:

http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/index.html

Why are starships so much smaller than giant mecha...?

Reziac · May 17, 2013

Lord Hierarch said:
This would be better:

http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/index.html

Now I find I want those all organized by source!

Lord Hierarch · May 17, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
Why are starships so much smaller than giant mecha...?

I suppose it depends on the mecha in question.

An Evangelion on average is 80 meters tall.That's as big as... well... umm... Firefly?

Reziac said:
Now I find I want those all organized by source!

*Rubs chin*

Technically, they are all grouped together...

mpack · May 17, 2013

I don't think any standards exist, as each sci-fi universe is self-contained. However, if you use real world terms based on real world instances, many people will draw on the parallel. Of course, even in real world terms, modern navies don't always have a consensus definition of some of those terms; for instance the US Navy has a somewhat fuzzy demarcation between destroyer and cruiser which doesn't precisely align with historical usage because of technological evolution.

I think most people do understand some sort of progression, even if is a simply light ship to heavy ship. If you're creating a detailed fleet structure, you're probably best off giving some sort of comparative reference on any important type to clarify what it means (if such things matter to your plot.) It can be as simple as "this was no mere destroyer chasing them, the Syldonin Alliance meant business; the enemy had dispatched a capital ship with a complement of escorts to bring them down" or as complex as you care to make it.

Maxx · May 17, 2013

PeteMC said:
You might find this helpful

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardSciFiFleet

Escape Pod seems pretty standardized.

Banks had a pretty systematic ship classification that had no obvious connection to Dreadnoughts and whatnot.

triceretops · May 17, 2013

I would say ship classes really depend upon the story and the environment, the tech base at the time, the current nomenclature (if it's been changed or instituted by a certain society) and if the ships classes cover all conventions like military private, corporate and so on.

I've got Russian-built ore freighters, zip shuttles, Starliners, corporate liners, heavy patrol cruisers, gunships and other such craft--kind of a smattering. My ships come in tri-hull or pontoon designs, some with airfoils, some without. It's up to the preference of the writer what kind of ships inhabit their world.

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Science Fiction Ship class: Are they standard?

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