Is telepathic formatting an auto-rejection?

AbbyBabble · May 7, 2013

I don't think this belongs in the Share Your Work section, since it's just a yes/no question. Do you think that literary agents and slush readers would automatically reject a novel that has weird, telepathic, hive mind formatting (with italics and parentheses) and a non-standard POV in chapter 1?

I've included the potential chapter 1 below, to show what I'm talking about. Just look at the formatting and non-standard POV, and please tell me if it seems like grounds for a rejection.

***************************
Part 1
Chapter 1.1
Verdict

The Torth Majority surged, millions upon billions of opinions adding up. The billions thickened into trillions. A large portion of the Torth Empire invested themselves in this hot news topic. Sideline arguments broke out, while the main discussion roared into a tornado of thought.

(He is) half human.

A hybrid.

An abomination.

He has a spoken name?

Thomas Hill.

(Yes) Primitives (humans) named him.

He was raised among them. He believes he is human.

Let's kill him.

A super-genius known as the Indigo Governess weighed in, her vast intelligence disrupting the vortex. Billions of audience members latched onto her colossal mind, eager for her opinion.

I request his medical invention (known as NAI-12), the Indigo Governess sent. And I request the boy (inventor) (super-genius). He has value. I want him.

Thousands of high ranked Torth echoed her request. If the Indigo Governess saw value in something, then that thing had value. Millions of Torth reconsidered killing the boy. After all, he was a mind reader.

(Yes) he is a mind reader (half Torth).

Unlike the (threat) giant (Alexander Dovanack).

Other Torth dissented. He is too (human) slave-like to (ever) be one of Us.

Tainted. Primitive.

(Yes) kill him.

The Indigo Governess disapproved. Her strong reaction drew an audience of billions. You would destroy a (very) useful tool, she sent. We (super-geniuses) are (uncommon) valuable. This boy (Thomas Hill) displays great (promise) initiative. With only primitive (human) technology at his disposal, he invented a medicine that some of Us can actually use. He is ambitious (like Me). He wants to live. If We (Torth) give him access to the Mind Language . . . and let him reach his full potential . . . he will accomplish great things. He will further the Empire.

The Torth Majority absorbed her opinion, mulling it over, wondering and scheming and debating. At long last, after a few frenetic seconds, the Majority reached a thunderous consensus.

Then yes.

We will offer the boy a chance to (live) join Us.

If he passes the Testing--

--he will be (one of Us) a (god) Torth.

<<< end of chapter 1.1 >>>

The following chapters are normal.

u.v.ray · May 7, 2013

It might be me. But I barely understand a word of it, even less, understand what's going on.

To me, it reads like something experimental. It seems like hard work ploughing through it -- and that in itself might give good reason for an editor to reject it.

But it may well be that I'm just not up on the hoo hoo this sci-fi/fantasy genre is all about.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

Ok, so.... you have a hive mind. It communicates with its components telepathically. And it has come together to make a decision about a human male who is also telepathic but isn't the same species. So they want him to pass an initiation test before they let him join the collective mind.

Is that right?

The style sort of reminds me of Ian M Banks. He played with language and spelling in... erm... crap I've forgotten... Summat Enjins? Anyway.... I think this could work but it's going to be tricky to pull off. The Collective writing will need to have a rhythm and pace of its own or it will become too much work to read. And I doubt you will sell it to people who aren't already into heavy sci-fi.

But yeah, I liked this bit.

Kerosene · May 7, 2013

What I've read, I can't make sense of it. So, yes, the formatting doesn't work for me and that makes it so I can't read it.

I think removing the parenthesis would make it stronger. Maybe if you made this almost like a immediate message board where comments just flood in with a single train of thought. Almost like a room full of people arguing, and without dialogue tags.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

No, no, no. Don't remove the parentheses. That will just make it harder to grasp that it is many voices and not one voice. The parentheses help with the layering.

veinglory · May 7, 2013

I wouldn't put this in the first chapter, personally.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

Hmmm.... maybe but wouldn't that depend on how the rest of it is formatted? I would be more put off by the start being 'normal' and then having the above sprung on me.

Kerosene · May 7, 2013

mirandashell said:
No, no, no. Don't remove the parentheses. That will just make it harder to grasp that it is many voices and not one voice. The parentheses help with the layering.

But, Miranda...

The hivemind is a collective of individuals with their own thoughts.

Their own thoughts.

Their own thoughts.

Their own thoughts.

We are one, but also each other.

One.

Each other.

All the same.

The individual may think, but only as the hive thinks the same.

Because we are individuals.

Singular.

And one.

One.

One.

One.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

But writing each person's thought on a seperate line will make the novel as thick as a brick!

ETA: I get what you're saying, Will, and yes that works but it gives me an impression of the hive taking turns to think whereas the parentheses are showing the hive having thoughts all at the same time.

I think it works but it might be only me.

Myrealana · May 7, 2013

It makes sense, as such, but I wouldn't read a whole book written that way. It's melting my brain, and as accurate a representation of a hive mind as it may be, I'm not into melting synapses.

CosmicLibrary · May 7, 2013

It is a bit confusing. That said, I think your instinct is right, to try something new and interesting. Could you add a short explanation about how it should be read first? Work it into the scene?

As a short introduction into the mind it's an interesting piece of setting, but it would be hard to read this for more than a page.

Charlie Horse · May 7, 2013

I don't really get the parenthesis. They seem kind of random. But I like how you're experimenting and trying something new. I'm just not sure about opening the book like this. It almost seems like back story or prologue material. Overall, I don't think it's a auto-reject as long as the writing is strong but it could be a tough sell. Ultimately, however, you're the creator and visionary of this. Go with your artistic integrity.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

Myrea - Well, from the OP, I'm guessing it's not all like that. It's just the hivemind bits that are that way.

Actually, I've just noticed the last line of the post says the rest is normal.

thothguard51 · May 7, 2013

As to the question, no, telepathic formating is not an auto reject. What is an auto reject is if the reader, as in agent or editor, can not understand what is going on.

Here is my take, if you are going to use italic's for telepathy, then you should not use italic's for an individuals thoughts. The reader will be confused on if the character/characters are communicating or just thinking.

As is, I had no problem in understand what was going on, but I am not sure what is going on was enough to draw me further into the novel, as is...

Buffysquirrel · May 7, 2013

I think I'd be pretty disappointed if there wasn't more of this mind-bending stuff in the novel.

No, I don't think it's an auto-reject. But then I've read a lot of SFF. And I suspect agents who rep SFF have read far more than I have.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

Yeah, I reckon a SF agent would not reject it out of hand. But like every other story, it needs to be interesting.

Reziac · May 7, 2013

I got what was going on real quick. And the formatting is hardly unique; this, or much like it, has been used in various SF novels with vaguely similar elements, as a quick way of distinguishing group dialog/thoughts.

What bothered me wasn't that; the dialog/thoughts were clear enough. But when you switch modes into plain omni-narrative "some super-genius weighed in" it suddenly jerked me back from where I was overhearing their thoughts, to where I was just an onlooker at a distance.

Raindrop · May 7, 2013

I understood (liked) it.

I think it would need to be grounded a bit, however. Maybe by sitting on one of the hive-mind multiple shoulders, so that we would get a sense of what they look like and where they are. I'm left with an impression of talking (thinking) heads in a white room (deep space) (sorry, it's an intriguing [fun] way of writing!). It may be the effect you're aiming at, but I wouldn't read for much longer.

Polenth · May 7, 2013

The potential formatting issues are covering up the real problem. This is an infodump prologue, that you've called chapter one in the hopes no one will notice. You don't need to set the scene of your novel before it begins. The reader can find out the boy's a genius who invented medical stuff during the story. Start where it begins (which I guess is the next chapter).

As for the formatting, I like hivemind stories, and it doesn't bother me. What does is the hivemind was rather dry and lacking in personality. You can't rely on being a hivemind to create interest, as once the reader is used to that, they're going to need more.

NinjaFingers · May 7, 2013

I understand it perfectly and worked out what was going on right away.

Of course, I read a lot of SF.

A LOT of SF.

Including some very heavy writers like C.J. Cherryh. Neal Stephenson was pretty bad in Anathem too...I had to read it twice to work it out. I needed an author-English dictionary for that one!

So. No, it's not bad, but you will have to accept that you're going to attract a very cerebral class of reader and mostly hard-core science fiction fans - so whatever else happens *don't get your science wrong*

.

mirandashell · May 7, 2013

Well to be fair, Abby was only asking if that formatting would get an auto-reject, not if it was publishable quality.

:tongue

Buffysquirrel · May 7, 2013

Heh, well, yeah, the genius line jarred on me, too. But we're not critiquing here. Ahem

.

Kylabelle · May 7, 2013

I totally got it, loved it, would want to read more. I agree that use of italics needs to be very precise, however, else this could get quite confusing. If this sort of thing is handled in a way that does not challenge me too much to track with the various narrative threads and speakers - if it does not confuse! - then it's a delight. One of the great attractions, for me, about SFF is exactly this boundary pushing world-and-being creation. Total yummers!

As well, this snippet makes me wildly curious about this human who has found himself in this pickle and what will be revealed as he works his way through it all.

Polenth · May 7, 2013

Buffysquirrel said:
Heh, well, yeah, the genius line jarred on me, too. But we're not critiquing here. Ahem .

I could have said: It's not the formatting that's a problem. It's something else, but I'm not going to tell you what, and you can't make me!

But I figured that wasn't very helpful.

onesecondglance · May 7, 2013

You wanna see crazy telepathic ten person conversations? Alfred Bester, The Demolished Man.

They get bored and start trying to make pretty patterns with their thoughts. The typesetter must have wept.

Is telepathic formatting an auto-rejection?

AbbyBabble

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u.v.ray

greatest writer of his generation

mirandashell

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen

mirandashell

veinglory

volitare nequeo

mirandashell

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen

mirandashell

Myrealana

I aim to misbehave

CosmicLibrary

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

mirandashell

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Buffysquirrel

mirandashell

Reziac

Resident Alien

Raindrop

Polenth

Mushroom

NinjaFingers

mirandashell

Buffysquirrel

Kylabelle

unaccounted for

Polenth

Mushroom

onesecondglance

pretending to be awake