Using a Flamethrower Indoors

Orianna2000 · May 3, 2013

Is there a safe way of using a flamethrower indoors, without burning the building down? Like, can they make the flames shorter? Can they use one that doesn't shoot burning fuel, but rather, just flames? (My research suggests there are some that use gas instead of liquid fuel, but it was a bit confusing.)

My guys are using flamethrowers to keep an alien fog at bay. They're trapped in a basement bomb shelter, and when they're ready to leave, they send a volunteer outside. Right now, I have them shoot a flamethrower through the open doorway to keep the fog from entering the bomb shelter, while the volunteer ducks outside. But then it occurred to me that the flamethrower might just set the basement walls on fire, especially if it's shooting liquid fuel. Obviously, I don't want to burn down the building, so I need to know if there's a way of making it safer.

If I must I rewrite the scene, I suppose they could go upstairs to the street level before using the flamethrower, instead of setting fire to the basement hallway. But that would require changing things so the fog doesn't penetrate the building, which would make their retreat into the bomb shelter pointless. I don't want to rewrite the entire scene, but I need events to be plausible. If it makes a difference, they're in modern-day London.

Any help, here?

Trebor1415 · May 3, 2013

In general, flamethrowers are best used outdoors. However, if your operator is good, and is actually in the doorway, I think he could shoot out without igniting the room.

Read the wiki link and check out these videos. They may help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamethrower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZXUYEdSNhY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNu0sR89_BM

Orianna2000 · May 3, 2013

Just to clarify, they're in a room in an office building's subbasement, shooting out into the hallway. I'm most concerned with the opposite wall of the hallway, where the flames might strike.

everywriter · May 3, 2013

Well, I will tell you a very true story that happened to me. I don't know if this will help, but it is very true. When I first moved into my house my son, who was 2 at the time dropped the base to the razor into my toilet. Now at the time I had no money. To go out and buy a new one wasn't something I was thinking about (I didn't know you could buy one for like $100). I was young and stupid.

I began to try to get the base of this razor out of the toilet. It was about the same exact size of the hole in the toilet, and it wouldn't come out! I took the toilet to the garage and tried everything. I had all kinds of drills, a saw, even a kinda of spinning grinder. Nothing worked on this thing, and no matter how many times I put a pair of pliers on the thing, I could not pull it out, at some point, it was a kinda late at night, and I had a couple of drinks which gave me the inspiration to use...fire! The base of the razor was made of a very hard plastic. So I filled the toilet with gasoline stood back and lit it. Now I don't know about a flame thrower (military style) but see this toilet was rocking back and forth, and every time it would rock back enough air would get in their and a flame about 12 feet long would shoot out and blast against the ceiling of the garage. It did this about 4 times. It did not burn anything. Nothing caught fire. Might not be what you are looking for, but it's all I got on this one.

It did not work by the way. Fire did turn out to be the key though, I used a more controlled burn...sterno.

blacbird · May 3, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
Is there a safe way of using a flamethrower indoors, without burning the building down?

I'll hazard an opinion:

NO.

Flamethrowers don't throw flame. They spurt ignited liquid fuel.

caw

Orianna2000 · May 3, 2013

everywriter said:
So I filled the toilet with gasoline stood back and lit it. Now I don't know about a flame thrower (military style) but see this toilet was rocking back and forth, and every time it would rock back enough air would get in their and a flame about 12 feet long would shoot out and blast against the ceiling of the garage. It did this about 4 times. It did not burn anything. Nothing caught fire. Might not be what you are looking for, but it's all I got on this one.

That's interesting! Still, if it's shooting liquid fuel that ignites as it leaves the device, it might be a different story, as the fuel might splatter over the wall, catching it on fire. This is why I'm wondering if gas flamethrowers might be safer.

blacbird said:
Flamethrowers don't throw flame. They spurt ignited liquid fuel.

Which is precisely why I mentioned the possibility of using gas flamethrowers in my OP. Presumably, if they shoot ignited gas it wouldn't be as likely to catch the walls on fire. Still dangerous, but perhaps less so than a liquid fuel flamethrower. But I wanted an expert's opinion to be sure.

King Neptune · May 4, 2013

Using a flamethrower in an enclosed space has a huge potential for causing great damage. If the flame touches flammable things only briefly, then things may not ignite, and I men briefly. If fuel gets on the flammable things, then they are almost surely gone. The kind of fuel would make little difference.

You are writing fiction, so you can do as you wish, but don't experiment at home.

thothguard51 · May 4, 2013

Why use a flamethrower on fog? All a flamethrower is going to do is light up an area within the fog. Flames do not repel fog...

jclarkdawe · May 4, 2013

Short answer is it depends. Factors include type of flamethrower, fire load (for instance, a basement might have cement walls -- i.e., very low fire load), space, sprinkler system, radiant heat dangers, and probably quite a few others.

I'd look at the specs for agricultural flamethrowers (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDpeHp_98zQ for example). Cement or cinder block walls will help a lot. But I think any size that is safe is not going to be strong enough to force fog back. What you're going to be trying to do is generate sufficient air currents to force the fog away from you, and I think you're going to need a powerful flamethrower to accomplish that.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Bufty · May 4, 2013

Won't anything with a jet simply create currents that re-cycle the fog?

jclarkdawe · May 4, 2013

Bufty said:
Won't anything with a jet simply create currents that re-cycle the fog?

I'm not sure what the OP is hoping to accomplish here.

But anything that creates air currents, such as a fan, water spray, jet, flame thrower, can be used to force fog or smoke away from an area. It doesn't get rid of the fog or smoke, just re-arranges it. I think that's what the OP is hoping to accomplish here, but I'm not sure.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Russell Secord · May 4, 2013

Another consideration with any indoor flame is that it will use up a lot of oxygen. Depending on how well ventilated the place is, your characters may pass out from smoke inhalation or hypoxia before the air gets fresh again.

kaitie · May 4, 2013

Well, it is an alien fog. Maybe it's alive and doesn't like fire? And if that's the case, what about homemade torches instead? Then you have the fun torch is gonna go out suspense element to add to it, right?

Parametric · May 4, 2013

This thread intrigues me greatly.

Orianna2000 · May 4, 2013

It is an alien fog that feeds on human blood, so they're trying to burn it, but it doesn't work out as they'd hoped. It retreats from the flame only because it hurts, and once they run out of fuel, the fog pushes forward again. In the end, they starve it until it's weakened and then they drop chemical incendiaries on it to destroy it.

Unfortunately, the basement is not cinder block, it's designed just like the rest of the office building, with painted walls, carpeted floors, and florescent lights overhead. I could say that he deliberately makes his flame bursts short, so as not to strike the opposite wall, but there will end up being scorch marks anyway.

This whole thing bugs me, because the entire subplot hinges on them using flamethrowers and being trapped in the basement. It's like a house of cards: I can't remove one aspect without everything else falling apart.

King Neptune · May 4, 2013

The Blob but gaseous instead of being gelatinous? Didn't fire kill the Blob?

Amadan · May 4, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
This whole thing bugs me, because the entire subplot hinges on them using flamethrowers and being trapped in the basement. It's like a house of cards: I can't remove one aspect without everything else falling apart.

Besides the fact that yes, it's going to be really hard to use flamethrowers inside without setting the place on fire, also keep in mind that fire sucks up a lot of oxygen. I hope that basement has plenty of air circulation (which will compound the "controlled burn" problem) or your characters will suffocate if they don't set themselves on fire.

Amadan · May 4, 2013

King Neptune said:
The Blob but gaseous instead of being gelatinous? Didn't fire kill the Blob?

No way, they froze it with fire extinguishers and then dropped it in the Antarctic!

Orianna2000 · May 4, 2013

They're in a bomb shelter with an air circulation filter/thing. Sorry, my mind isn't working clearly, I only had two hours of sleep last night. At any rate, there's a fan overhead to keep air circulating, so that should be plausible, I'm hoping.

I was totally inspired by the original Blob and didn't even realize it! I loved that movie as a kid. Scared the heebie jeebies out of me, but I loved it. That must be where I got the idea for the fog.

King Neptune · May 4, 2013

Amadan said:
No way, they froze it with fire extinguishers and then dropped it in the Antarctic!

Thanks, I couldn't quite remember it.

Maybe that would work for this alien fog.

Orianna2000 · May 4, 2013

King Neptune said:
Maybe that would work for this alien fog.

Actually . . . not for the killing of the fog, but just to hold it back while the volunteer runs outside, fire extinguishers might work better than a flamethrower. Less risk of killing everyone!

The question is, how feasible is it that an ordinary fire extinguisher (of the type used in the UK) would repel an alien fog long enough for them to open the door and slip out? Would the chemicals in the extinguisher hurt the fog? Freeze it so it can't move, temporarily? Hmmm.

kaitie · May 4, 2013

Well, it's alien, right? So theoretically it could hurt it if you wanted, right?

I think people could run through a door awfully quick if they had to. How many are there?

Ooh, ooh! Sprinklers! You could use the flame thrower, catch the wall on fire, and the sprinklers go off and put the fire out!

jclarkdawe · May 4, 2013

A fire extinguisher wouldn't bother a fog any more then a flame thrower.

I'd think of a CO2 extinguisher. It's cold enough to cause frostbite, and removes oxygen from the air. It's available in England (red with a black panel over the instructions). About a minutes worth of materials if you keep the trigger down. Between the frostbite temperature and the lack of oxygen in its path, I'm sure you could argue that your fog would be bothered.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Dave Hardy · May 4, 2013

I'd be wary of using a flamethrower indoors personally. Flamethrowers were designed to get people to leave structures, specifically bunkers. The modern sort (I'm leaving aside Greek fire devices used in Ancient or Medieval times) cropped up in WWI where they needed innovative devices to deal with assaulting entrenched foes who were more or less invulnerable to gunfire.

The classic example of use bu US forces is in the Pacific where flamethrowers were employed to flush Japanese troops out of bunkers or caves. The flamethrower team works up to the bunker with support from rifles or grenades. They spray the bunker with flame. The Japanese exit and get gunned down.

But there is a solution! US forces also employed flamethrower tanks. Obviously the tank is enclosed, but the jet, the spray nozzle is on the outside of the tank. The system is enclosed so the tank crew is not exposed. They were still in use in Vietnam, I think they were called "zippos" after the lighter.

So, I can think of a couple of of scenarios (or more, I'm just thinking outloud), the protagonists build an ingenious flamethrower. Someone says, "Hey here comes that gosh-durned fog through the door."
"Don't worry I'll get it with my home-made flamethrower!"
Hilarity ensues.

Or, the heroes build a nozzle that protrudes from their defensive position and sprays the fog as it rolls in, but does not jet fire into the structure. Cheers all around.

But wait, fogs creep in on little cat feet! What if part of the fog sneaks around back while everybody is fixed on the fireworks up front!? Duhn-duhn DUHN!!!

Anyway, I think you get the idea. I like a bit of flamethrower action in a story.

King Neptune · May 4, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
Actually . . . not for the killing of the fog, but just to hold it back while the volunteer runs outside, fire extinguishers might work better than a flamethrower. Less risk of killing everyone!

Yes, killing all of your characters would not help the story.

The question is, how feasible is it that an ordinary fire extinguisher (of the type used in the UK) would repel an alien fog long enough for them to open the door and slip out? Would the chemicals in the extinguisher hurt the fog? Freeze it so it can't move, temporarily? Hmmm.

I would think that there are CO2 fire extinguishers in the UK, and those put out a cloud of cold CO2. It's your alien fog, so you can determine whether it would notice a cloud of cold CO2. If it were my alien fog, then it would work exactly as I wanted it to work.

Remember that people will suffocate in CO2, especially in a basement. CO2 is heavier than air. Molecular weight about 40, while nitrogen is 28 and oxygen is 32. weights are rounded.

Using a Flamethrower Indoors

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