How much disbelief are you willing to suspend?

There are lots of lines that characters can cross that make me roll my eyes and put the book down. Is there a situation you're specifically referring to?

When I first began reading YA fantasy as a child I had huge problems with it to the point where I just stopped reading fantasy books period (it was the Narnia series, if you're curious) until I was grown up.

Anyway, now I've changed and I can even read books like Tyra Banks's Modelland (where the laws of physics go to prison to die) and actually ENJOY it! So what I'm trying to say is that it totally depends on the individual reader.

You can literally have an MC with heterochromia (two different colored eyes) which is a condition that exists IN REAL LIFE and still have readers slam your book shut going "NOPE NOPE NOPE!" because they've decided that this is automatically a Mary-Sue characteristic.

I think the main thing you can do as a writer is to just write your story how you want to and hope that most of your readers are in the right mental place to accept what you write.

Here, let me give you another example. I'm Middle Eastern and my mother came from a country where she had never seen a red haired person. (Even though red haired people DO happen to exist there, back then there was no internet or anything like that and she'd just never seen one in her city.) When I was a little kid I would have HUUUUGE arguments with her wherein she would insist that red hair does not exist and that everyone with red hair is like that because of hair dye. The little girl from Annie? That's a wig! Irish people? They're just blonde or brown haired, there's no such thing as red hair. I remember being on the subway once and seeing a little girl my age with long carrotty orange hair and pointing at her going 'LOOK! SHE HAS RED HAIR!' and my mom still insisting that it must be hair dye, and me going 'But she's a little girl! Little girls aren't allowed to dye their hair!'

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people have these mental blocks, (maybe not as extreme as my mom's) where some things will just never be real to them no matter how much evidence you shove under their noses, you just have to do your best, that's all.

Haha, sorry this turned into a rant. I had a lot of pent-up fee-fees.

The more I'm enjoying a book, the more disbelief I am willing to suspend and the more I hate it, the more I will pick it to death.

But yes, everyone has a line, obviously, and it'll be in a different place for each person.

For me it is all about the actions.

I accept magic mutants Godlings with sci-fi techno-babble easily enough - but the characters have to act in a a belieable way.

If a small group is in a scary place where horrible things are happening - they are not going to split up to "search effectivly".

If someone witness something traumatic, they are not going to crack one-liners and be funny about it.

I hate it when people act like plot-devices instead of acting like people

WormHeart said:

If someone witness something traumatic, they are not going to crack one-liners and be funny about it.

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That I would believe. Soldiers and policemen do it a lot -- it helps distance them from the shit that is going on. (Apparently morticians are the worst, so my embalming friend tells me). Gallows humour.

Mr Flibble said:

That I would believe. Soldiers and policemen do it a lot -- it helps distance them from the shit that is going on. (Apparently morticians are the worst, so my embalming friend tells me). Gallows humour.

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Oh, sure, but then it is framed by their profession.

It's more like the babysitter fighting off a masked madman, decapitating him and then go: "Don't loose your head, now." *bada-bing*

Oh it's character based, no doubt about it. But what if Batman were your babysitter?

Happens to me all the time. Of course it's embarrassing when you look up the thing later and it turns out the writer's right and you're wrong, but the damage is done by then.

Going against received wisdom is usually the biggest problem. Like with the 'thumbs-down' in the Roman gladiatorial arena. Everyone knows that, so if you go with what seems to historians more likely to be accurate nowadays, everyone will know you're wrong. *shrugs*

Aside from that, there's the whole 'people don't behave like that' thing.

And when I'm watching a murder mystery on the tv, I have to remind myself not to worry that such complex crimes are in fact incredibly rare. Because, really, who can be bothered?

It all depends on how it's written. The more engaging the characters/story, the more I'm willing to suspend disbelief. Beyond that, the action/characteristic in question has to make sense and be consistent within the framework of the story.

The Big Lie In Speculative Fiction

And I'll go so far as to say that it doesn't just apply to speculative fiction.

Depending on how well the story is told, I'm willing to believe that a magical school can exist, a game where teens are forced to battle to the death is held every year, and there is a group of assassins called Untouchables whose training includes taking care of a puppy for a year and then killing it.

My belief has been shattered because a 16-yr-old virgin outsexes a 1000-yr-old sex goddess, every meanie in the book hates the MC because s/he's jelus of MC's amazing looks, and/or everyone falls in love with MC because of his/her amazing looks.

Thinking a little further on this...


A good writer can make me believe anything, up to and including the Prime Minister turning into an owl and flying to the moon made of cheese, where he rules us via his awesome mind powers and makes us say twit twoo (ETA: I need to write this now, just to see if I can do it...).

A bad writer can make even truth seem so clunky no one would believe it.

I think both of those things are important to me - internal consistency (which seems like what that Big Lie argument boils down to) and my idea of how people behave. If a story has both of those, I'm golden.

But my husband and I are pickier than other people (him more than me). Justin Cronin's "The Passage" for example, irritated us with a lot of 'uh uh, I can't see it working that way' and it's an extremely popular book. Of course part of the problem might be that he set it up as being real-world organisms that inspired vampire legends. So in some ways he's asking to be critiqued as if it was an actual scientific theory.

I love Scifi, but any time the author jumps to a science that is not realistic, I tune out. I think I can sit through anything as long as I know the how of the science. If I don't, forget it. Character wise it's the same. I will believe anything if you walk me through your lies.

Historical anachronisms either upset or amuse me, but either way it's difficult to take the rest of the book seriously. Characters acting in a manner that I find hard to accept (especially in Romance) tend to make me lose the desire to read on. If you don't believe said heroine would put up with behaviour of the hero, or worse think she's a wet hen to put up with it, then you're not going to feel the love.

Fantasy and Sci-fi then the characters have to cope with the weirdness around them and seem real for me to suspend disbelief, but in anything with real facts they have to right. If you assert something is so, then double check it because someone somewhere will spot it.

“Writing is a way of talking without being interrupted.”
― Jules Renard

bearilou said:

The Big Lie In Speculative Fiction

And I'll go so far as to say that it doesn't just apply to speculative fiction.

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I'd agree. I often told fanfic writers I could believe anything if the writer made me believe it. If the writer takes that Big Lie and everything in the writing is consistent with it, my suspension of disbelief is practically boundless. If the writing is inconsistent with RL and those inconsistencies aren't addressed within the Big Lie - that's a problem.

Funny, I was just reading this review of a Sophie Kinsella novel: This is only the second book of yours I’ve read but I’m seeing a pattern developing – namely plots that sound more than a little ridiculous but which have to be accepted in order to enjoy your particular brand of literary chaos...But when it comes right down to it, the plot descriptions do make it sound as if your novels are peopled by complete fucking lunatics...And let’s face it, if this wasn’t a comedy and it hadn’t been written by you, I would have closed the book right then with the thought that Lottie was as crazy as a shit house rat. Heh.

Anyways, I can accept a fair bit, but it really depends on the sort of book. If something's light and humorous, I am usually willing to accept a lot more. The last book I had a hard time suspending disbelief for was Wife 22. Which I still enjoyed somewhat, but the issues described in this review (you need the spoiler) were totally problems for me, too.

Also, I am more willing to suspend belief for a ridiculous premise than resolution.

etv78 said:

Is there a line a charcter can cross that makes you say,"No way it would happen that way!" or "No way he can look/be like that!"

I'm not refering to Marty/Mary Sues, I mean improbable achievements or characterizations.

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There is no universal, and probably not even for a single reader. For example, I will ignore a lot more physiological impossibilities in say a book about a werewolf, where I am supposed to roll with the idea a guy can completely dissolve and re-knit his entire skeleton in a few minutes, than I would in a mainstream fiction book where a grandma is dying of cancer. So I'll read about other-world pain wizards who shoot magic through a stun pistol, and I'm perfectly fine with that; it is the author's world, and they make the rules, but I will not read a detective story with a nine-shot .357 revolver, because that takes place in MY world, where no such gun commercially exists.

If this is in regards to your MIT student, it would plant a large red flag unless you dealt with it well. Large enough to put the book down, or pan it in a fit of rage? Probably not. But large enough you'd have much less leeway elsewhere--reading a book is a sort of net-sum endeavor, this would go in the cons and you'd have to offset it somewhere else, making the rest of your work a little bit harder.

I don't have a problem suspending disbelief for the big things in a story, but the small things should be correct or at least reasonable. For example, if the characters are human, they must perform within the bounds of real anatomy and physiology. Unrealistic healing from injuries really bothers me, like when an author uses an injury to stir up drama or suspense in one scene and then forgets about the consequences of that injury through the rest of the story. This includes the all-too-frequent plot device of having a character knocked unconscious and then get up to do something physically heroic.

The big danger in delving into the supernatural or in altering the laws of physics and chemistry (and biology) is if the author is inconsistent in applying the "new realities" or if the author trots them out as a obvious convenience for the story.

For magic and stuff, I think Brandon Sanderson has it right. The more you define the rules of your magic system, the more credibility you have when magic does something that affects your plot. And in general, with fantasy, credibility as a good writer in general means a lot to me. Which means I'm going to accept some weird stuff if you write it well and hook me, and won't accept even basic stuff if the first chapter or two are boring and badly written and inconsistent.

What matters to me more than the physical is the social, though. I enjoy social dynamics a lot, so if the interesting social ramifications of something are totally handwaived or ridiculously contrived, I'm likely to lose interest unless the writing is really good. For example, I've read like three urban fantasies now where people know vampires/werewolves are real, the police have their eye on them, and it's allegedly modern America and the supernatural don't rule openly. In all three, the vampire alpha males (always a cheesy alpha male) did whatever the hell they wanted, could force people into their societies against their will, and didn't bother to hide the fact that they were running things like mob bosses or vigilantes. And the cops never intervened despite it being more brazen than even Capone attempted, and the heroines never just said, "No, f*ck you, I have Constitutional rights and proof that you're threatening me and you're going to jail." I could buy that if the vampires had like, infiltrated the government with mind controllers or something, or it was a corrupt dystopia. Modern America, where the alpha male vampires are famous celebrities? Much harder to overlook, especially when explaining _how_ the vampires get away with this shit in plain sight would be more interesting. I'd much rather see a little more drama about how a society like that co-exists with the real world rather than a lot of handwaving and "eh, everybody just accepts it cause genre, here's a katana."

(Oh, and speaking of those books? If the heroine who has never been in a fistfight in her life is able to beat up supernaturals who have fought each other for centuries, she needs some cool special trait to explain it. "I took self-defense classes for a few weeks so now I can beat up werewolves who have the same powers as me and decades of combat experience" doesn't cut it, but "I have some weird trait that makes me many times stronger than them or gives me inherent fighting skill" is fine.

EDIT: Also, as a lesbian who is also transgender, I'm kinda interest in LGBT people being portrayed realistically. Instead of exploitative gay best friend stereotypes and stuff. I'm looking at you, two out of the three books I mentioned above.

My feeling is, if you're gonna write a novel that flies in the face of "reality"--that asks readers to suspend belief and go on that ride with you--you need to do so with the utmost confidence and the utmost care. If you succeed in the latter, the former shouldn't be an issue.

The devil's in the details. I'm reading a novel right now by a certain hippo. The world she's created is incredibly well-thought out, I'm bloody amazed, I bought right into it and that hasn't wavered. The writer has the utmost confidence in this alternate world she's designed. Ergo, so do I.