New to this, sales question

DC2244 · Apr 1, 2013

I've just joined and I'm a total beginner as a book writer but I've written a few magazine features before.
I've always had a desire for knowledge and for a year or so have had a desire to write, and just recently came up with an idea for a book. I guess you'd call it popular science. Without giving too much away it will include sections on geology, genetics and evolution. I plan to make it easy to understand, intelligent and informative (hopefully!). I've written a synopsis, a plan for myself and the first 1500 words. I have no idea how good it is or whether I could get a publisher interested. I'm going to initially treat it as a hobby, since I don't know what the potential income might be, but I do want to make money from it.

Anyway apologies for these questions, I'm sure beginners always ask exactly the same ones! First of all, will self publishing always tend to earn a lot less than using a publisher? Does self publishing work for this type of book? And about potential sales - impossible to say I'm sure, a book can sell 200 or 200,000. But I'm guessing there's a fairly modest ceiling for this type of book. My thinking at the moment is that I'd be disappointed to sell 1000 and very happy to sell 20,000 or more. Am I in the right ballpark?

Apologies for a slightly long first post.

And sorry for apologising so much, my excuse is that I'm British!

veinglory · Apr 1, 2013

It really is impossible to say without knowing the book topic, the book quality, and thus the potential publishers or direct-to-reader potential.

DC2244 · Apr 1, 2013

Thanks, I thought I might be asking an unanswerable question.
I think I will approach some publishers to try and get some feedback, I feel very much in the dark at the moment.

Siri Kirpal · Apr 1, 2013

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Please! Do NOT approach publishers with this question! The answer hinges on: how well you write, how knowledgable you are, whether your credentials support that knowledge, how large a platform (reader base) you have ALREADY through such things as blogs, articles, the teaching of popular workshops, etc.

Now, if you just want to write a book of thoughtful essays on the topic (which can be hard to sell), you won't need the creditials, but you'll need everything else.

Hope that helps.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

DC2244 · Apr 1, 2013

Siri Kirpal said:
Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Please! Do NOT approach publishers with this question! The answer hinges on: how well you write, how knowledgable you are, whether your credentials support that knowledge, how large a platform (reader base) you have ALREADY through such things as blogs, articles, the teaching of popular workshops, etc.

Now, if you just want to write a book of thoughtful essays on the topic (which can be hard to sell), you won't need the creditials, but you'll need everything else.

Thanks, I hear what you're saying there.
My original thoughts were just a series of essays which I didn't feel too happy about, but then I came up with a more coherent idea which I think might find a niche. My difficulty is that I don't have any credentials or existing platform at all. I just have enthusiasm for the subject and possibly a flair for researching, I don't know. It might be an uphill battle selling it but I put together a synopsis/sales pitch which I felt was really positive.

Siri Kirpal · Apr 1, 2013

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Good. Instead of writing a proposal right now, write the book. It is easier to sell or publish if you've got it written than if you don't...unless you're a big name. And work hard on getting a platform. Write for your newspaper, write blog articles, develop a well-liked facebook account, whatever.

And best of luck!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

GailD · Apr 1, 2013

DC2244

It looks to me as if you're trying to decide whether the investment of your time and effort is going to be worth it in sales at the end. That could be putting the cart before the horse. You won't know how good it is, or how well it works, until you've written it.

My suggestion? Just write it. Then get a few beta readers to give you some feedback.

DC2244 · Apr 2, 2013

GailD said:
DC2244

It looks to me as if you're trying to decide whether the investment of your time and effort is going to be worth it in sales at the end. That could be putting the cart before the horse. You won't know how good it is, or how well it works, until you've written it.

My suggestion? Just write it. Then get a few beta readers to give you some feedback.

Thanks

You're right Gail and Siri, I do need to just get on with it. Years of self employment have taught me to have a business plan for everything, I've got to remember that feeling of 'just go for it' that I had in (slightly) younger days!

veinglory · Apr 2, 2013

I would actually suggest going with the proposal and three chapters first. Because it is always possible the book has a very limited market and you would be better putting your efforts elsewhere. Writing a prposal is only half a day's work in itself and can help firm up the book concept.

DC2244 · Apr 2, 2013

veinglory said:
I would actually suggest going with the proposal and three chapters first. Because it is always possible the book has a very limited market and you would be better putting your efforts elsewhere. Writing a prposal is only half a day's work in itself and can help firm up the book concept.

I think I'll do something like that, because I'd like to get some feedback as soon as possible. I know the subject is popular because there are quite a few similar books out there which sell well, but mostly large format books with pictures. The idea I've come up with will make it unique, at least from my research so far. My biggest unknown really, is how good is the standard of my writing and would it prove popular.

veinglory · Apr 2, 2013

In my case I got a publisher on proposal and then negotiated a two year time frame to complete the book (they wanted one year but I knew that wasn't realistic). It can work out a lot of different ways. I need to get off my but and finish my proposal for non-fic book #2. I find them so much harder than fiction.

Helix · Apr 4, 2013

veinglory said:
I would actually suggest going with the proposal and three chapters first. Because it is always possible the book has a very limited market and you would be better putting your efforts elsewhere. Writing a prposal is only half a day's work in itself and can help firm up the book concept.

This^^^

I submitted a proposal to a publishing house. The editor asked for the first three chapters, which she then knocked back because the book would have been quite heavy on colour photos and illustrations. But she said that she really liked my writing style, so we then worked together on developing a project that suited me, the publisher and the market.

Literateparakeet · Apr 4, 2013

I'm pretty much a newb myself, but I have found much value in writing a book proposal. I'm much slower than Veinglory...when I complete mine I think I will have spent a month and a half on it. But I don't mind, I have learned a lot from the process, and my book will be better for it.

I've read/skimmed four books on book proposals and my favorite..hands down is Nonfiction Book Proposals Anyone Can Write by Elizabeth Lyon.

My second favorite is Bulletproof Book Proposals because it contains actual proposals that sold.

Writing the proposal might satisfy your need for a business plan.

ColoradoGuy · Apr 18, 2013

As veinglory says, the way to go is to write the proposal (which contains a couple of chapters and then chapter summaries) and not the complete book. Nonfiction is sold on proposal.

jonpiper · Apr 18, 2013

Literateparakeet said:
I'm pretty much a newb myself, but I have found much value in writing a book proposal. I'm much slower than Veinglory...when I complete mine I think I will have spent a month and a half on it. But I don't mind, I have learned a lot from the process, and my book will be better for it.

I've read/skimmed four books on book proposals and my favorite..hands down is Nonfiction Book Proposals Anyone Can Write by Elizabeth Lyon.

My second favorite is Bulletproof Book Proposals because it contains actual proposals that sold.

Writing the proposal might satisfy your need for a business plan.

Thanks, LP, I just put a hold on both at our public library. Will buy them after reviewing them.

John Olexa · Apr 18, 2013

Just checked my library for both. "No results found in Search Results" Dang small town! LOL.

Lavinia · Apr 24, 2013

A few thoughts. First of all, write the book. Use your interest and enthusiasm to write the absolute best book you can! You can do it. Don't worry about money. Most books don't make enough to pay your bills. You have to write the book because you...well...have to write the book. Use your passion to propel your writing.

I don't know anyone besides VeinGlory that can knock out a book proposal in an afternoon. They can be quiet involved. And here's the deal...although a book proposal can be used to send a publisher and get a book deal, there are other and even better reasons for doing them. I did one for Breaking the Code. I got a publisher without needing it. However, I am positive that writing it made a huge difference in landing that publisher. How? I met the editor at a conference, and because I'd done my homework (ie: proposal), I knew my subject. I knew it very well, inside and out. I'd thought through things like marketing, and competing markets and so forth, and it showed. Being comfortable with my subject and educated in not just writing but the publishing industry helped land me a contract.

So, I recommend doing both; proposal and book. Hope this helps. ~Karen

DC2244 · Apr 26, 2013

Thanks for the replies, and encouragement.
Having done a bit of research and modifying my idea a bit I think I can see a gap in the market which could be popular. My research has also shown me that I'm completely out of my depth and lacking in the required knowledge - it's quite a major project. But I do feel there ought to be a book like this on the shelves.
My plan at the moment is to read up on the subject so I can be more in a position to asses whether I'm going to be capable of this or not. Whatever the outcome, I'll enjoy the learning and might be able to use it in some way.

One thought I'm also having is that I think the book would be much better with plenty of photographs/illustrations, which I couldn't supply. This seems like a whole different ball game to me and I'm guessing that publishers wouldn't take this on with a first time author. Anyone any thoughts?

Siri Kirpal · Apr 27, 2013

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

If you find a well-known photographer/illustrator to work with you (who would share advances/royalties), then you might well have a chance.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

DC2244 · Apr 27, 2013

Siri Kirpal said:
If you find a well-known photographer/illustrator to work with you (who would share advances/royalties), then you might well have a chance.

Any photographs would need to be sourced from stock from a variety of sources.

Siri Kirpal · Apr 27, 2013

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Hmmm... Not sure about that then. I worked with people I knew for the illustrations for my books. The publisher paid in one case, and I paid for the illustrations in another.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Helix · Apr 27, 2013

When you submit your proposal, the publisher will almost certainly want to know how many photos/illustrations your book will require and whether you can provide them.

In may case, my publisher had a separate budget for illustration. Luckily for me, I have a background in scientific illustration so I could take care of that myself.

Keep at it --- carve yourself a niche --- and good luck!

Belinda Levez · Jun 9, 2013

I would go with the proposal route. Every book I've written has been commissioned on the strength of a proposal. My first was with a proposal and one chapter. At least then you know from the feedback whether or not the idea is viable.

Even then you do get some crazy responses from publishers. I once got a wordy two page reply from one who went into great detail telling me that gambling books don't sell - 18 books later they are still selling.

Old Hack · Jun 9, 2013

Non-fiction is almost always sold on the basis of three chapters and a proposal.

But if you have no reputation in your subject and feel out of your depth researching the subject it's very unlikely a publisher would want you to write this book, I'm afraid.

Belinda Levez · Jun 10, 2013

Hi I'm also a Brit. Initial print runs tend to run at about 5000 for non-fiction books. New technology means that publishers can take a suck it and see approach. If the first batch sells then they print more but I've also heard that some are printing as little as 2000 nowadays. If you find a publisher you will usually get an advance equivalent to the sales they expect in the first year. It basically depends on how well they think the book will sell.

Lots of publishers are also embracing new technology more and publishing for kindle.

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