No fee E-publications

WriterWannaBe · Feb 4, 2006

Have any of you tried these? A few have good reps.

I have a romance ms. completed (402 pages, double spaced) and am currently waiting for a professional critique and editing. I'm trying traditional first, but I've been lucky enough to talk to a few published authors in the romance genre, and my hired help is schooled in the business. It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

I refuse to give up as I want readers beyond family and friends and e-pub sounds next best. I'm not talking about places to post your ms. for a fee. I'm talking about those that you have to submit to and be accepted. I've e-mailed a few authors of romance e-pub sites and received their input. Nobody is becoming rich, but so far all are happy and selling.

I wonder if any of you are considering any options beyond traditional, since it is so hard to become published that way. I'm looking for alternatives that are not vanity press.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd like to say that the snobbery against anything except traditional is, imo, silly. There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.

The romance genre is the easiest to break into, which is partly why I tried it (I also like romance). Any other genre is nearly impossible, unless it's a "how to" book.

Most of us will eventually need to think outside the box or give up. I won't give up.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

I think that you overstate the difficulty of getting a traditional publisher--although it may be wise to research publisher requirements before writing, and to consider medium and smaller print publishers.

But in terms of electronic publishers, sales with some epublishers in some romance genres are very respectable and many of them go to print with popular books. What genre romance is it? Erotic does best in e-book form but I also see quite a lot of non-erotic alternative, BBW, paranormal and inter-racial.

DamaNegra · Feb 4, 2006

DaveKuzminksy (sorry if I mispelled that) has two (I think) published e-books and, by what I hear, he's doing well on it. You could ask him.

loquax · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.

If anything, this is a good sign about your chances of being published traditionally.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

DamaNegra said:
DaveKuzminksy (sorry if I mispelled that) has two (I think) published e-books and, by what I hear, he's doing well on it. You could ask him.

I have a half dozen myself

DamaNegra · Feb 4, 2006

veinglory said:
I have a half dozen myself

sorry, I forgot about that (the link to your e-book is in your signature, right?).

So, what have been your experiences in e-publishing? I'm also considering that as a way of publishing my work, but I would like to know about sales and stuff like that.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

You have to research the epublishers carefully, some sell pretty well (maybe 500 or more copies per book per year) others struggle to sell a dozen. It's hard to tell from webpages, ask authors privately.

Print typically sells better. If you have a full novel I suggest trying print first.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

p.s. if you are selling well over 500 copies of your ebooks anywhere other than Ellora's cave please PM me and tell me where !

L.Jones · Feb 4, 2006

If you are serious about being pubbed in Romance, you really need to think about joing RWA. (rwanational.org)

If you already belong, consider getting to the national conference.

If you already are planning on that -- attend some workshops. I know it's more fun not to, so if you don't want to do that, buy the 'tapes' of the workshops so you have the most current info.

annie
Luanne Jones
Heathen Girls (Mira, available now)

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

I have heard mixed reports about RWA, even from Americans, but some people have found them immensely helpful. Not so much if you do choose to go with epublishing which is not an area they emphasise.

If you are not American it is worth looking to your local RW to see what they offer.

Mike Coombes · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

This is whining. These are the tired excuses of the unpublished and potentially unpublishable. Harsh? Maybe, but doesn't stop it being true.

"It's just very hard to break in."

What do you expect? A red carpet? If it was easy, every bozo who'd resorted to PA would have a deal with a major instead.

"You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules"

So follow the rules. Duh. It's pretty fundamental stuff, it's not like 'the rules' are some kind of secret that nobody will share with you.

"very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses"

Total bull. Major houses sign new authors every day. They all need fresh blood, and they all want the next big thing.

If you don't get published, you don't get published. Make your decisions and move on, but don't do the self-pitying whine that the system is against you. It's the same system everyone else has to work with.

(grasshopper) · Feb 4, 2006

In last night's chat with Victoria Strauss, she said something I had never thought of before.

She said something to the effect that if you write a novel that is marketable, you're not competing against all the other hundreds or thousands of manuscripts out there, you're only competing against the small fraction of them that are also marketable.

What a wonderfully encouraging thought.

WriterWannaBe · Feb 4, 2006

Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.

To answer questions: I have a contemporary, but it's a bit different than the usual, although I used the normal romance formula. Yes, I've checked the guidelines for all the traditional publishers. Yes, I've joined the RWA (invaluable). It's still hard to get published. VERY hard. Never delude yourself.

I've e-mailed a few contemp. romance e-pub authors and so far the few who answered are very happy. I've checked which e-pubs have a good/bad rep. Some are not curretnly accepting submissions, which is fine. I want my ms. error-free, and I'm paying to have it done. Once I've written it over again, and maybe again and again, I'm good to go and at least I won't make the slushpile because of a misspelling. The slushpile won't get ME without a fight...muhahahahaha. In all honesty, I've heard ms. are rejected because of poor grammar, misspellings, etc. I'm not sending my ms. anywhere until it's perfect that way.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.
.

This is all my rampant opinion as an active epublished romance writer:

I suggest you pull back from that attitude. There are a lot of very experienced authors and editors here who are very, very in touch with reality--getting published is hard but those with talent and determination get there in the end. If you want to benefit from the experience of the writers here--including romance writers published with big houses, don't tell them the state of publishing today.

Yes, being e-published is nice, but if you think your manuscript is suitable for print publishing by a major press, do that--it's better. It's like deciding whether to sell a photo as a print in an art gallery or for stock. Both are fine business models but the strategies are totally different.

If you are planning to epublish (with the associated smaller profits per book) to make money you need to cut costs, write in bulk and pick good publishers. A standard charge for a professional editor is about the same as the profit the book is likely to make with a respectable mid-level sweet romance epublisher.

Finally, when checking on epublishers ask the authors specifically ask what their sales are. Writers can be happy, and epublishers respectable with sales that will not even cover your costs.

WriterWannaBe · Feb 4, 2006

I have asked. Making money isn't that important to me. And I do have a sense of reality about traditional publishing. Often, even if the editor likes your book, it's unsuitable due to what is selling at the time (something you can't predict year-to-year as you write), a publishing house afraid to chance a new author, a romance that isn't 100% in sync with the category (Harlequin, for example), etc. There are more reasons not to become published than to be published. I know people who have tried for years to become published, and write well, yet have turned to e-pub and POD (I'd rather do e-pub). Our dream is traditional publishing, but it won't happen to all of us or most of us. It's not unlike the great athlete who wants desperately to play professional sports and is talented. Only a very few select players are chosen. Certainly many with vast talent are passed up for various reasons. Very few make it. That's why I'm curious about alternatives, and very happy that, in 2005, there ARE alternatives. Unless your name is Stephen King (strangely, an author I don't like), there's no guarantee of publication. Even after an author is published, there is no guarantee the publishing house will keep him/her. They have to keep topping their sales. There is a very good site for Avon authors, and I go there every day. They chat with the peons (unpublished) on Monday nights and anyone interested in any sort of publishing can ask questions and learn a lot talking to them. They are certainly forthright.

A lot of luck is involved with getting published too. It's not easy. This is not a case where true talent will necessarily win out. Anyone with experience with alternative publication is somebody I want to listen to. I'm already talking to published authors on a few sites, but even they realize that they are the lucky ones.

pepperlandgirl · Feb 4, 2006

, a publishing house afraid to chance a new author, a romance that isn't 100% in sync with the category (Harlequin, for example),

Well, first, publishing houses aren't afraid to take a chance on new authors, because old authors die. Or retire. Or never write another publishable book. They want books that'll sell. Most new writers can't produce books that'll sell immediately, so they assume it's the publishing house that's the problem.

Second, have you looked at the eharelquin site? They have about a dozen or more lines. One of them might be right for you. And every single person who publishes with Harlequin was a first-time author at one point or another.

Now, I have about...five novels, four novellas, and a few short stories, all epublished. I don't regret that at all. I've had a great time working with my editors, my publishers are great, and it's been a wonderful learning experience. But I know the only way to become a good writer is to finish one novel, set it aside, and write a new, better novel. Then set it aside, and write a new, better novel, and on and on. The novel you have right this moment may not be for the traditional houses, and it may fit well with an epublisher due to content/subject matter/ etc, but you shouldn't treat epublishing as either a dumping ground or a final destination.

DamaNegra · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
A lot of luck is involved with getting published too. It's not easy. This is not a case where true talent will necessarily win out. Anyone with experience with alternative publication is somebody I want to listen to. I'm already talking to published authors on a few sites, but even they realize that they are the lucky ones.

Talent, knowledge of the writing craft and determination are the key factors in getting published. I do not believe in 'luck', I believe every persons creates his or her luck and that things happen for a reason.

You seem to be overly pessimistic about the publishing industry. How many times have you tried placing your novel with a commercial publisher? How many rejections have you gotten already that has made you completely give up on commercial publishing?

Jamesaritchie · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
Have any of you tried these? A few have good reps.

I have a romance ms. completed (402 pages, double spaced) and am currently waiting for a professional critique and editing. I'm trying traditional first, but I've been lucky enough to talk to a few published authors in the romance genre, and my hired help is schooled in the business. It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

I refuse to give up as I want readers beyond family and friends and e-pub sounds next best. I'm not talking about places to post your ms. for a fee. I'm talking about those that you have to submit to and be accepted. I've e-mailed a few authors of romance e-pub sites and received their input. Nobody is becoming rich, but so far all are happy and selling.

I wonder if any of you are considering any options beyond traditional, since it is so hard to become published that way. I'm looking for alternatives that are not vanity press.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd like to say that the snobbery against anything except traditional is, imo, silly. There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.

The romance genre is the easiest to break into, which is partly why I tried it (I also like romance). Any other genre is nearly impossible, unless it's a "how to" book.

Most of us will eventually need to think outside the box or give up. I won't give up.

New writer get pubish constantly, especially in the romace genre. Romance publishes more new writers than any genre by a wide number.

If your book is any good, a traditional publisher will take it. If it isn't any good, going your way won't improve it's quality.

You may think the snobbery against non-traditional publishers is silly, but it isn't. Your problem may be your statment that there is crap published by traditional publishers. If you really believe this, you haven't read what's published by many e-publishers and other such venues. It's a thousand times worse than anything traditional publishers buy. It fully deserve the sneers. Simply put, almost all of it stinks on ice.

I think you're looking for ways to justify your book being turned down by traditional publishers. If this happebns it's because your book just isn't good enough. That's the norm. About 99 out of 100 aren't anywhere near good enough.

"The right rules" means writing a good book of the kind readers want. If you can't do this, readers aren't going to want it no matter where it's published.

Mike Coombes · Feb 4, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.

I'm in touch with authors. I talk to them every day.

Over on the Backspace forum, which is pitched more at the professional, I thin something like 20 members had their first novel bought in 2005, all to major publishers. Barely week goes by without someone making the announcement.

It's still hard to get published. VERY hard. Never delude yourself.

I think maybe you're the only deluded one here. We all know it'd hard; that's the whole point, editors tend to discriminate between what's good and what's not. If it was easy everyone would do it.

WriterWannaBe · Feb 4, 2006

Well, good luck then. Fiction is harder to break into. Romance is the easiest of fiction.

I'll pursue traditional first, of course. However, if it were as easy as writing a good book as a guarantee of getting pubished, a lot more people would be published. I still maintain it's a good idea to have a backup plan. A good novel alone will NOT guarantee a traditional publisher will buy your book. Sorry, but it's true. Finally, my ms. wasn't turned down. I won't submit it until the editing is completed.

Even Harlequin, the easiest place for publication, is hard to crack. They publish about 4-8 new books a month. May sound like a lot, but they get thousands of ms. The odds are not in the author's favor in any genre, which is again why I'll try hard, but am grateful for alternatives. In no way do I believe all great writing is pubished or that being turned down by a traditional publisher means you didn't write a good story. When you have published works of fiction, get back to me. It's great to have dreams, but, imo, it's better to shoot for the stars, but have backup plans. Take care. I'm pretty much finished with the topic since I was hoping for responses about e-pubications.

Take care.

(grasshopper) · Feb 5, 2006

What scares me is the fact that I see a little of me in you. Or, at least a little of what I used to be.

I thought I had the magic touch. That what I wrote was going to be the next major international bestseller. It was so frustrating trying to get past all the major roadblocks (like creating a polished manuscript, writing queries, submitting to agents, waiting months). I just wanted the d--- thing out there on the display shelves. Let's bypass all the agents and editors. They don't know a good story when they see one, anyway.

Let the people decide!

Once a member of the general public actually reads my masterpiece, he won't be able to put it down. He'll LOVE it!

And that will be the proof.

Yes, my friend, I see a part of what I used to be in you, and the fact that I might never have found out better scares the living daylights out of me.

Good luck. I wish you all the best.

L.Jones · Feb 5, 2006

pepperlandgirl said:
Well, first, publishing houses aren't afraid to take a chance on new authors, because old authors die.

Or want more money. Or act like divas in a world where there are a lot of other writers who would happily claw over their still-warm dead bodies to take their slot in the publshing rotation.

New writers get the call every year. But like they say in the lotto, you can't win if you don't enter. You can't be traditionally published, if that is your goal, unless you are getting your work in front of editors who can buy your work. In the end, you have to decide what you really want and go for it all out - don't worry about that 'what if they reject me?' crap until it happens and not just once. I had more than 50 rejections, mostly from Silhouette (division of Harl) before I sold my first a decade ago and learned something with every one of them.

I know lots of folks do but I would never have considered e-pubbing my work, it would not have worked for me (it's not a fame and fortune thing, I make a modest income off writing and nobody knows my names). Never had a back up for what if a book got rejected other than rewrite it or write another one. That's my advice, decide exactly what you want and go for it. Write, submit, and keep working on the craft.

annie
Luanne Jones
Heathen Girls (Mira - availble now)
aka once upon a time Natalie Patrick (for Silhouette Romance)

SC Harrison · Feb 5, 2006

WriterWannaBe said:
It's great to have dreams, but, imo, it's better to shoot for the stars, but have backup plans. Take care. I'm pretty much finished with the topic since I was hoping for responses about e-pubications.

Take care.

You got some very good responses about e-pubs, but you also got some other information you didn't like. That doesn't surprise me, because the tone of your initial post led me to believe you're frustrated.

I have not e-published, but I can tell you what I think would be an advantage to this: the market comes to you. Sort of a digital bookstore, if you will. You can and will need to promote the e-book and draw more people to it, but there is already traffic flow there.

I can tell you about POD from personal experience. Unless you have a unique set of circumstances that guarantees you a large pool of readers, publishing a fiction novel this way is a huge waste of time. Try as you may, getting bookstores to stock the book on their own coin is virtually impossible. Some bookstores will allow you to place them on consignment, but they usually want 60% of the selling price, which may allow you to break even. I know what you said about not being interested in the money, but you should be. That attitude can lead to a huge loss of money if you're not careful.

Whichever route you go, scrutinize the details closely before you sign anything. If you're not comfortable with an aspect of a contract, trust your judgment and ask questions. And lastly, do not even think about going with PublishAmerica.

pepperlandgirl · Feb 5, 2006

Even Harlequin, the easiest place for publication, is hard to crack. They publish about 4-8 new books a month. May sound like a lot, but they get thousands of ms.

This makes me think you haven't research Harlequin at all. Which line publishes 4-8 books a month? Presents publishes 4, SuperRomance publishes 4 (I believe), Blaze publishes 6. The new Everlasting line will publish 2 (I believe). Thta doesn't count American Romance, American Historical, Intrique, Spice, NEXT, Modern Xtra Sensual. Those are just the lines I remember off the top of my head! Looking at their site, I see there's also Harlequin Medical Romance, the regular Romance line. That's just under the Harlequin umbrella.

Then you've got Sillouette, MIRA, Steeple Hills, LUNA, Red Dress....

They do gets thousands of submissions a month, and every single month, I know people who have contracted a book or more with them--new people.

dlcharles · Feb 5, 2006

I have to agree about the 'Crap' out there - look at James Frey's best sellers. Someone took a chance and everyone made a fortune. I read the books and have to give him kudos for outsmarting the system, because he definitely is not a writer - he may be an author, but a writer he is not.

No fee E-publications

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