Kickstarter — can I still go the agent/traditional publisher route after this?

I'm confused - what would you be using kickstarter FOR and what would you be giving people?

Are you suggesting you'd give people your book if they gave you money on kickstarter? That's publishing and yes, that'll very likely kill any trade publishing deal prospects.

Its very rare for a trade publisher to pick up a previously self-published book (I've never heard of a memoir being picked up in this regard), regardless of sales figures and marketing. And I would have to question who'd support a memoir on kickstarter, or any book for that matter.

Methinks you're pushing yourself and will only slip and fall in the end. Slow down. Learn to write, learn to edit, learn to pace yourself and get something that you can be proud of done. Publishers will value your hard work.

metamemoir said:

I don't see why not. Because you're publishing the book.

It's basically just a way of pre-selling books

But you also have to publish those books

so even if you get a regular publisher all you have to do is honor your backers (usually by giving them a copy of the book).

Your backers are giving you money to publish your book - that's how the Kickstarter projects work. You have to give them what they contribute to. Since there are no costs involved in getting a book published via the agent/publisher route, if you don't pay for the copies to be published before you go that route, you're violating the Kickstarter TOS.

And I don't really think it should hurt your chances of getting picked up by a publisher.

It can.

Granted, in this case, you're going to have a limited run, which you could use to justify a small sales record, but it's a record, none-the-less.

Sure on one hand it is XX number of fewer customers (because they've already pre-ordered the book essentially directly from the author),

I don't think you understand how Kickstarter works.

You propose a project and people buy-in to help you achieve your goal; in return they get a sample of the project they helped fund. If your project has no costs, which is the case with going the agent/publisher route, then you don't need to generate capital to "kickstart" your project. The site doesn't allow you ask for money to live on while you're trying to achieve the project (or "pre-sell" with the intent to achieve your goal separate from the money raised).

Kickstarter books DO exist, however, they're self-published and often niche projects. The money generated goes to the production of the book, and marketing for it, etc. It's not given in advance of someone looking for a commercial deal.

but it's a good platform for spreading the word about the book once it hits from a marketing perspective right?

No. Again, the scope is fairly small, and there are a ton of people trying to get attention for their book the same way.

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Kickstarter is great for self-publishing projects where the author needs capital to get their story out into the wild, but it's not intended for people who are going to go the commercial route.

If you have your manuscript printed into the form of a book, even if it sits in your basement for a thousand years, it's still going to be considered published. If you post your entire book anywhere on the internet, it's going to be considered published. The only way it won't be considered published to an agent is if you hold on to that manuscript and submit it to them first.

If you decide to do the Kickstarter thing, you can always write another book and query that one to agents.

folkchick said:

If you have your manuscript printed into the form of a book, even if it sits in your basement for a thousand years, it's still going to be considered published. If you post your entire book anywhere on the internet, it's going to be considered published. The only way it won't be considered published to an agent is if you hold on to that manuscript and submit it to them first.

If you decide to do the Kickstarter thing, you can always write another book and query that one to agents.

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I thought that a book had to be distributed in some way to be considered published. In other words, I can print a book for my own use -- as long as it isn't available for others to read or acquire a copy, it's not published.

Am I wrong on this?

I thought that a book had to be distributed in some way to be considered published. In other words, I can print a book for my own use -- as long as it isn't available for others to read or acquire a copy, it's not published.

Am I wrong on this?

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Katrina, it certainly falls into a gray area. I hate speaking in aboslutes and perhaps my answer was too black and white. If anyone else has wisdom on this, feel free to educate me as well.

If you print copies and hand them out to people who have funded your Kickstarter appeal then that would certainly sound like the book was published to me. That wouldn't necessarily be the kiss of death for trade publication but if one were hoping for a trade deal, then what's the point of the Kickstarter appeal?

Metamemoir, slow down. Learn how publishing works, and what's involved, before you do anything more.

Either you published the peldge copies and they are published so the odds are you aren't going to get a publisher, or you are selling people a commercially published book at some unspecified time in the future--and what are they paying you for? (sounds borderline fraudulant).

It is theoretically possible to pick up a commercial publisher after self-publishing a memoir funded by kickstarter, but, as usual, the commercial publisher will have to see sufficient evidence of sales to believe the book is worth republishing and sufficient evidence of a broad market appeal to believe the current sales haven't saturated the market. Most agents/editors say they want to see figures in the range of 5000 - 10,000 copies sold for non-niche material.

Katrina S. Forest said:

I thought that a book had to be distributed in some way to be considered published. In other words, I can print a book for my own use -- as long as it isn't available for others to read or acquire a copy, it's not published.

Am I wrong on this?

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The distinction appears to be "offered (for sale or for free) to the public," and this is what a Kickstarter campaign does (offering books for sale before the publisher does). For another example, PublishAmerica books are considered published as far as agents and (commercial) publishers are concerned, even if (or even though, as this is the usual case for PA books) no one but the author buys copies. They are listed as "available" on PublishAmerica's website, so by THAT measure they are considered published.

What they said.

Books are like cars. Once they roll off the lot in a customer's hands, their value goes down...unless it is a REALLY special car. If people are giving you money and getting your book in return for their money, then a publisher will consider your book "used", and you now need to prove to them that buying a used ride is worth the risk.

This means your book should do as well as a trade published title would without a publisher's support.

This is a lot harder than it sounds.

If your goal is trade publication, and you think your project is of enough quality to be attractive to a trade publisher, do not self publish the book. The odds of a book, any book, getting picked up by a trade publisher are slim. The good, possible kind of slim, but still slim. You shouldn't try the self-publishing route until you're positive that "slim" actually equals "none".

folkchick said:

If you have your manuscript printed into the form of a book, even if it sits in your basement for a thousand years, it's still going to be considered published.

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Alas, I can't find myself in agreement with this. "Publish" means "make public." Whether you bind your book or not, if you leave it in your basement it isn't published. It's only when you start selling it (or giving it away in the street) that it's published.

If I were to print out a dozen copies of my next book, bind them, and give them to my beta readers for comment, it still isn't published any more than if I'd give my beta readers a text file. If, however, I print out that same dozen copies, bind them, and sell them at a flea market, it is published.

"Public" is what it's all about.

If only a dozen copies sell, most publishers would consider that basically unpublished. They might offer lowball advances, but if it's a dandy book they'd still offer on it.

Even if a book sells thousands of copies, if it's a dandy book it'll still get published. If this weren't true Huckleberry Finn wouldn't be in print right now.

The thing you want to avoid is this: You don't want to have your book branded a proven failure. You won't resell it if the publisher thinks that it's already sold as many copies as it's ever going to sell.

The sales numbers of most self-published books fall into the proven failure range.

And, as a reprint, you'll be limited to reprint houses and reprint-level advances.

James D. Macdonald said:

The sales numbers of most self-published books fall into the proven failure range.

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Out of curiosity, what kind of number are we talking about? Less than 10,000?

I've spoken to a few agents who consider a novel than sells less than 3,000 trade copies to be a failure.

StephenJSweeney said:

Out of curiosity, what kind of number are we talking about? Less than 10,000?

I've spoken to a few agents who consider a novel than sells less than 3,000 trade copies to be a failure.

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Visiting agents to the board have put the mark at around 20K sold before it's likely to catch a commercial publisher's attention. It's a rather high bar.

StephenJSweeney said:

Out of curiosity, what kind of number are we talking about? Less than 10,000?

I've spoken to a few agents who consider a novel than sells less than 3,000 trade copies to be a failure.

Click to expand...

Only a very small proportion of self published books sell in triple digits.

Most books from established trade publishers with full distribution services sell a few thousand copies, even in the UK, which has a significantly smaller market than America.

If you include sales figures from the many micropresses, POD houses and similar then the average sales figures drop considerably, as those publishing houses tend to enjoy the same problem with selling their books that self publishers experience.