More on ISBNs

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MaggieDana

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I was going to post this at the end of Katie Elle's thread about Self-Publishing and ISBNs, and decided that perhaps it needed its own thread so it wouldn't get lost (thanks, Katie, for all your excellent information over the past couple of months).

So, here goes ...

This is what I've learned about ISBNs, some of which could be dead wrong, so please chime in here:

You need a different ISBN for each format (there are exceptions; see below):

ePub
Kindle (.mobi and other Kindle formats)
large print
audio
print (including CreateSpace, Lightning Source, and others)

But this all gets confusing when the exceptions kick in. As in … you don't need to assign your own ISBN to a Kindle book; you don't need one (and Amazon doesn't assign on) because they give you their own identifier if you don't provide your own ISBN for this particular Kindle book.

Ditto when you upload to B&N Nook and Kobo's Writing Life. You CAN provide an ISBN (and this being ePub format, it would be the same ISBN for both platforms, but not the same ISBN as the one you provided for Kindle which is a different e-book format), but you don't have to.

Then comes iTunes. They used to require an ISBN (for the ePub format, which is the same format you can also use for B&N and Kobo) in order to upload a book to iTunes, but they no longer require it. Their instructions about this are kind of vague, as if they're hoping people will upload with an ISBN anyway, but they no longer demand it. I've uploaded three books without an ISBN to iTunes, and they are selling just fine.

To further muddy the ISBN waters, we have Smashwords (and other aggregators) and their ISBN options, which I am not familiar with. From what I've read (again, please correct me on this) it seems as if you can opt for a free (or dead cheap) ISBN that Smashwords provides and which will then list them as the publisher, or you can provide your own and which will list you (or your imprint name that you registered with Bowker, or wherever) as the publisher of record).

Next up … print, and the only place I'm familiar with (apart from being trade published where I didn't have to fuss with this stuff!) is CreateSpace. Here, you can opt for one of CS's ISBNs ($10, maybe … I don't have details to hand), but it will list them as the publisher. Or you can provide your own, and you (or your imprint … see Bowker details, etc., above) will be listed as the publisher.

All this boils down to … several confusing options!

So let's take a hypothetical book … MY ALARM CLOCK IS A ZOMBIE

Upload ebook to Amazon/Kindle, B&N Nook, Kobo, iTunes … no need for ISBN
But, if you decide to provide your own ISBN for these uploads you will need two:

One for Kindle and another for the ePub format which you upload to B&N, Kobo, and iTunes (these are the only places where you can directly upload ebooks at the moment without going through an aggregator.

OK, so that's 2 unique ISBNs so far, for the ebook version, if you decide to provide your own, which you are not required to do.

PRINT: Definitely requires an ISBN, no matter the platform (BUT some platforms will sell you an ISBN, but will list them as the publisher … take your pick)

AUDIO: Requires an ISBN

LARGE PRINT: Requires an ISBN

So, if you provide your own ISBNs for MY ALARM CLOCK IS A ZOMBIE (rather than acquiring them from Kindle/CreateSpace/Lightning Source, etc.,) you will need FIVE (5) for each book (ETA [thanks Al Stevens] you will need two ISBNs for print if doing both soft and hard cover):

Kindle (.mobi, KF8)
ePub (B&N, Kobo, iTunes)
print (possibly 2 ISBNs)
audio
large print

It's not the easiest concept to explain … so, please, please, if I've got this all bass-ackwards, please chime in.
 
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Al Stevens

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For print you need two ISBNs if you publish in both paperback and hardcover formats.
 

BAY

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AL,

I'm not sure but doesn't Createspace give out ISBN's? You have the option to use your own if you like.
 

MaggieDana

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AL,

I'm not sure but doesn't Createspace give out ISBN's? You have the option to use your own if you like.

Yes, CreateSpace will 'give' (or sell you cheaply) an ISBN if you elect not to use your own, but this means that CreateSpace is listed as the publisher, not you.
 

Al Stevens

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AL,

I'm not sure but doesn't Createspace give out ISBN's? You have the option to use your own if you like.

Correct. Createspace does not, however, support hardcover editions. You have to go elsewhere for that. I used Lulu.

Rather than have the confusion of who the publisher is across all the formats, I assigned my own ISBNs to epub, paperback, and hardcover formats. I did not assign an ISBN to the .mobi format. I can do it later if I want. Amazon uses their own ASIN to identify the e-book, and I do not anticipate marketing that format anywhere else.
 

DRMarvello

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Rather than have the confusion of who the publisher is across all the formats, I assigned my own ISBNs to epub, paperback, and hardcover formats. I did not assign an ISBN to the .mobi format. I can do it later if I want. Amazon uses their own ASIN to identify the e-book, and I do not anticipate marketing that format anywhere else.

This is how I approach it too. I don't do hardcover yet, but if I ever do, I'll print/distribute them through Lightning Source.

The nice thing about using your own ISBNs is that the ISBN gets assigned to the format ONCE and can be re-used anywhere you decide to go with your book. If you use one of the free or cheap ISBN options, you have to assign a new one if you go elsewhere, which can cause confusion in the distribution channels/marketplace. Some authors who are ditching Smashwords for Draft2Digital are facing this issue because they got the free Smashwords ISBN, which cannot be used anywhere else.
 

BAY

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ISBN costs are too high unless you can find someone to split the costs. Bowker needs a competitor! I'd rather put hundreds of dollars to cover art and editing. I'm on a budget.
 

jnfr

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This is a helpful post. Thank you.

I asked in Katie's thread, so I won't fully repost, but can anyone here confirm that using an ISBN assigned to another publishing house does NOT confer any copyright to them? Does it confer any kind of rights?

I agree that costs for these are way too high. I understand that in Europe at least some countries don't charge for the ISBN at all. It's just a database ID as far as I can tell.
 

James D. Macdonald

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I asked in Katie's thread, so I won't fully repost, but can anyone here confirm that using an ISBN assigned to another publishing house does NOT confer any copyright to them? Does it confer any kind of rights?

No, it doesn't confer any kind of rights, but it does make your book commercially unsalable.

The ISBN identifies not only the title, author, edition, and format, it uniquely identifies the publisher. So if someone tries to order the book, the order will go that that publisher; they'll say "What? That isn't one of our books," and that'll be the end of it. No book shipped.
 

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This is a helpful post. Thank you.

I asked in Katie's thread, so I won't fully repost, but can anyone here confirm that using an ISBN assigned to another publishing house does NOT confer any copyright to them? Does it confer any kind of rights?

I agree that costs for these are way too high. I understand that in Europe at least some countries don't charge for the ISBN at all. It's just a database ID as far as I can tell.

As has been explained to you in the other thread ISBNs don't have anything to do with copyright.

I disagree that they're too expensive. The price a publisher pays is not much more than the amount it costs to administer the scheme, and ISBNs provide a lot of valuable information to publishing, bookselling and related businesses.
 
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