Please, please, please! Say NO to DRM!

Ann Joyce · Dec 31, 2012

I got a new Kindle Fire for Christmas and a couple of Amazon gift cards.

I bought 10 ebooks to start with. Of the 10, I could open 2. The other 8 were DRM protected (imagine that, protected from me, a buying customer). A box popped up on my Kindle when I tried to open them telling me they had DRM and I would have to remove them from my device or go to the store and buy them. Hmmm...I had already bought them! I removed them and tried sending them to my Kindle again, only to have the same thing happen.

I've now had a first-hand experience with the problems customers have with DRM. This is why we don't want to put it on our ebooks when we publish. It not only frustrates buying customers, but from what I've read, if the pirates want to steal a book, they will, because they know how to get around it.

So now I'm stuck with having to return 8 books that I really want to read, while depriving 8 authors of a sale.

The percentage of books with that on them are making me reconsider my desire for a Kindle! Plus, I wasted a lot of time shopping for and choosing those books.

J. Tanner · Dec 31, 2012

That doesn't sound at all like the typical experience with a Kindle and an ebook purchased from Amazon even if it has DRM.

When I buy an ebook on Amazon, I have a PC and my Kindle linked to my Amazon account. I have it set to send the ebook to my Kindle.

The book shows up automatically on my Kindle since I have both 3G and Wireless. If you don't have those, you might need to plug in your Kindle to your PC for the automatic transfer.

The only reason I can think of is if you didn't use the automatic transfer. I'd suggest contacting CS about the issue and I would expect they could sort out the proper settings/process for you reletively quickly.

While DRM can be a problem for some, for the typical user it tends to be invisible. It would take a bit more specific detail about your situation to determine what the problem is.

(I'm not defending DRM. I work in an industry where it's much more draconian than what's on books. It can be a nightmare, and it remains minimally effective for its intended purpose.)

alleycat · Dec 31, 2012

I've never had any problem downloading books from Amazon, but I gave up on downloading any kind of computer software from them.

Ann Joyce · Dec 31, 2012

J. Tanner said:
That doesn't sound at all like the typical experience with a Kindle and an ebook purchased from Amazon even if it has DRM.

When I buy an ebook on Amazon, I have a PC and my Kindle linked to my Amazon account. I have it set to send the ebook to my Kindle.

The book shows up automatically on my Kindle since I have both 3G and Wireless. If you don't have those, you might need to plug in your Kindle to your PC for the automatic transfer.

The only reason I can think of is if you didn't use the automatic transfer. I'd suggest contacting CS about the issue and I would expect they could sort out the proper settings/process for you reletively quickly.

While DRM can be a problem for some, for the typical user it tends to be invisible. It would take a bit more specific detail about your situation to determine what the problem is.

(I'm not defending DRM. I work in an industry where it's much more draconian than what's on books. It can be a nightmare, and it remains minimally effective for its intended purpose.)

Thanks for your quick response J. Tanner. I do have wireless, and after I've purchased them, I have them sent to my Kindle. They show up there relatively quickly. I was able to open 2 of the 10 with no problem, so that does seem rather weird. Good idea about contacting CS (duh); I didn't think of that. I really do want to read these particular books. From what I've garnered elsewhere, it is probably better not to use DRM though. Thanks again.

merrihiatt · Dec 31, 2012

I've never had that experience with Amazon downloads. I use the Kindle app for iPad. How frustrating, Ann.

Blarg · Dec 31, 2012

More and more often lately, I am either opening a book or turning a page on my kindle and getting a pop-up window that says the material is not available and I should, if I recall correctly, download it again or go buy it. Yesterday I got a pop-up telling me my sample was done, but actually I had bought the full book.

Luckily, I've never had to go to too much trouble, and the problem doesn't tend to repeat over and over on the same book like a comical curse. I close out the book and reopen it. Once I had to resort to turning off the kindle and then turning it on again.

No machine is perfect, but overall, this is still small change when it comes to problems. I've certainly had more problems on PC's, be it via their operating systems or their programs, in the equivalent period of ownership.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 31, 2012

I will no longer buy Kindle books.

Too often the DRM prevents them from working with any of my screen readers.

leahzero · Dec 31, 2012

Um, what? I think you're confused. All ebooks that you purchase FROM Amazon will be viewable on your Kindle. It wouldn't make much sense for them to prohibit their OWN products from being viewed on their e-reader, now would it?

You must have purchased these ebooks from a third-party vendor of some sort. In which case, it's not Amazon's fault that the ebooks have DRM--blame the store you bought them from.

In any case, this is what the program Calibre is for. Just remove the DRM yourself. It's quite simple.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 1, 2013

DRM is a tool of Satan.

1) It prevents your fans rom reading your book in the way they choose.

2) It tells your fans that you think they're thieves.

3) It doesn't slow down the actual pirates by as much as a second.

fivetoesten · Jan 1, 2013

Yep. DRM. Hate it.

I've read drmed books on both on my nook and kindle software--I wanted to read them, so I shrugged and went for it, but I don't like it, not for one minute, and I'm dreaming of the day I won't have to deal with it.

Eriador117 · Jan 2, 2013

Hate, hate DRM. I've seen one of my ebooks (out with a publisher who doesn't put DRM on their ebooks) yet at one of the stores, it had DRM. The store must have added it themselves. I didn't think that was allowed.

sarahdalton · Jan 2, 2013

Well, bugger. I didn't realise it caused problems for readers. I've just uploaded a new version of my ebook and ticked in the DRM box. Amazon now won't let me untick it. Do you have to re-upload to change DRM? Or am I stuck with it now?

NinjaFingers · Jan 2, 2013

Actually, it's usually the distributor that adds the DRM.

Smashwords does not use DRM as a matter of policy.
Both Amazon and B&N PubIt offer DRM as an option.

Kobo used to put DRM on all books regardless of publisher wishes, but changed this policy in 2012.

Apple has mandatory DRM for ibooks that basically limits them to iOS devices.

So, it is not always the publisher's choice to use or not use DRM. I have my one self-published title in the ibookstore, although I get no sales there (but I don't sell many copies of it anyway...am hoping that will change after my novel comes out).

And it is certainly not always, or even often, the author's choice. Authors, especially anthology contributors, seldom have the clout to insist on the use or non-use of DRM.

I'm thoroughly opposed to DRM, but I also believe in making titles available through as many channels and in as many formats as possible, so...

MMcDonald64 · Jan 2, 2013

My first two books have DRM because I just didn't know any better. I didn't really know what it was and ticked the box, not knowing that it would limit readers. However, at that time both books were also on Smashwords, so I didn't think it was that big of a deal since they didn't have drm on the SW version. They are not on SW anymore, so what I did, which isn't the best option, but the only one I could think of, was to offer them as part of an omnibus version that has all four of my books. The omnibus doesn't have DRM.

As far as the drm books not working on Kindle, I think there must be something wrong with the OP's Kindle. I have two Kindle Keyboards and two of the original Kindle Fires in the house and over 800 books in my library. I'm pretty sure many of them have DRM since many are trade published, but I have never had an issue opening the books.

sarahdalton · Jan 2, 2013

MMcDonald64 said:
My first two books have DRM because I just didn't know any better. I didn't really know what it was and ticked the box, not knowing that it would limit readers.

Has it affected your sales?

The omnibus sounds like quite a good idea. I might consider this when I've finished the trilogy.

Ann Joyce · Jan 2, 2013

Thanks, AW friends, for all of your responses. It seems like the general consensus is: don't put DRM on your books. I bought another book yesterday (I know, glutten for punishment) and can't open it either.

leahzero said:
Um, what? I think you're confused. All ebooks that you purchase FROM Amazon will be viewable on your Kindle. It wouldn't make much sense for them to prohibit their OWN products from being viewed on their e-reader, now would it?

You must have purchased these ebooks from a third-party vendor of some sort. In which case, it's not Amazon's fault that the ebooks have DRM--blame the store you bought them from.

In any case, this is what the program Calibre is for. Just remove the DRM yourself. It's quite simple.

Um, what? I might not be as computer savvy as 90% of the people on here, but I am not a complete idiot, nor am I confused. Apparently, you didn't read my first sentence, where I said I got 2 AMAZON gift cards for Christmas. Do you think I'm so stupid I tried to spend them somewhere else?

As already stated, I bought all of my books from Amazon with a gift card and they showed up on my Kindle. Two of the ten opened, eight did not. I have spoken to Amazon, they can see I've made the purchases, but the problem is not yet taken care of. I will be calling them again today.

I am not blaming anyone with my post; I am cautioning fellow authors about putting it on their books. I think you are the one that is confused. I find your comments condescending and rude.

In regards to me using Calibre (which may or may not be simple for all of us), to remove the DRM from books I've purchased, I don't think it should be my job to do that in order to read something I bought, and therefore, now own. That's much like buying a blouse and having to deal with removing the security tag myself after I get it home.

MMcDonald64 · Jan 2, 2013

sarahdalton said:
Has it affected your sales?

The omnibus sounds like quite a good idea. I might consider this when I've finished the trilogy.

It's hard to say. The two with it are my bestsellers, but they are also the first two in the series and have been out 2-2.5 years, and the other two have only been out 2 months and 10 months, respectively.

Together those first two have sold about 45,000 books and I've never had anyone complain to me that it was protected by DRM. I don't really think I would have sold more without it, but who knows?

People who are tech-inclined might get angry about DRM, but I think the vast majority of people with ereaders don't want to bother with side-loading books. At least, that is my experience just with trying to give away advance reader copies. I had seven of them to give away with my last book and you would not believe how confused people were. One is a very smart person, and her husband is a big time IT specialist. I thought she would have no trouble taking the file I sent her and emailing it to her own @kindle address with convert in the subject line so it would go to her Kindle automatically. She ended up eventually getting it okay after my instructions and several IM, but others had a harder time.

My sisters have Nooks, which has long had the library feature, but none have every used it because it means side-loading.

Ann Joyce · Jan 2, 2013

PS: Once you've put DRM on your book, it cannot be removed unless you unpublish and republish. The problem with that is you lose your rankings and reviews, so if you have reviews, it might not be prudent to do it.

I found this quote on how to get rid of DRM, from J. Tanner in the 'E-Publishing' catagory, bolding mine: "...unpublish the current version, reenter all the info into a new blank form as if it were a new book, and publish again with the alternate setting for DRM. You lose your sales rank and reviews. There might be some way to transfer reviews so if you have any, and want to preserve them, check with KDP support before doing anything."

Sounds like you really have to count the cost on this one, or at the very least, as J. Tanner suggests, check with KDP to see if there is a way to retain your reviews.

BAY · Jan 2, 2013

When I uploaded my book, I didn't know what DRM was, however, they do offer a simple explanation of it. I double-checked the ins and outs on another computer before hitting publish.

The funny thing to me is DRM is defined as being positive in the Amazon explanation. The first inclination is to check it because you're trying to get to the upload. DRM is one of the quirks of self publishing that needs more explanation.

christwriter · Jan 2, 2013

I've never used DRM. Mostly 'cause I don't figure anybody's going to steal my books, and if they do...well, they'll either hate it, and it's no skin off my nose, or they'll have to come back and pay for the next one.

People are going to steal things. Putting DRM on the content is about as effective as putting the "Please don't steal my sh*t" statement beneath the copyright notice on the title page.

In fact, I'd say it's less effective. You can make the "Please don't steal" notice at least a little funny (like what Fight Club, the movie, did with a couple of their government notices) and entertaining for the reader. Non-functional DRM is about as fun as a brain tumor.

Old Hack · Jan 2, 2013

Ann Joyce said:
Thanks, AW friends, for all of your responses. It seems like the general consensus is: don't put DRM on your books. I bought another book yesterday (I know, glutten for punishment) and can't open it either.

Um, what? I might not be as computer savvy as 90% of the people on here, but I am not a complete idiot, nor am I confused. Apparently, you didn't read my first sentence, where I said I got 2 AMAZON gift cards for Christmas. Do you think I'm so stupid I tried to spend them somewhere else?

As already stated, I bought all of my books from Amazon with a gift card and they showed up on my Kindle. Two of the ten opened, eight did not. I have spoken to Amazon, they can see I've made the purchases, but the problem is not yet taken care of. I will be calling them again today.

I am not blaming anyone with my post; I am cautioning fellow authors about putting it on their books. I think you are the one that is confused. I find your comments condescending and rude.

In regards to me using Calibre (which may or may not be simple for all of us), to remove the DRM from books I've purchased, I don't think it should be my job to do that in order to read something I bought, and therefore, now own. That's much like buying a blouse and having to deal with removing the security tag myself after I get it home.

Ann, if you find a post offensive or upsetting I'd appreciate it if you'd use the "report post" button and let the mods deal with it in future. Thanks.

Ann Joyce · Jan 4, 2013

Ann Joyce said:
This was part of my response to the poster:

Um, what? I might not be as computer savvy as 90% of the people on here, but I am not a complete idiot, nor am I confused. Apparently, you didn't read my first sentence, where I said I got 2 AMAZON gift cards for Christmas. Do you think I'm so stupid I tried to spend them somewhere else?

I am not blaming anyone with my post; I am cautioning fellow authors about putting it on their books. I think you are the one that is confused. I find your comments condescending and rude.

Old Hack - I'm sorry I seemed to have breached the rules of proper conduct on AW once again. While I still believe this person's comments were condescending and rude, I regret responding to snark with snark as I did in my first paragraph - particularly with my, "Um, what?" return.

Sometimes it's hard to remember not to reply to people unless they are saying something nice. It never occurred to me to report her though; I didn't think it warranted that. I said what I said because I believe in freedom of speech, but I wouldn't have gone any further with it. Again, I apologize to you and anyone else I've offended with my misconduct.

Laer Carroll · Jan 4, 2013

I don't subscribe to the DRM IS EEVILL idea. But I don't put it on any of my books for a simple, practical reason: it's easy to get around. It does not deter thieves. If it causes problems, it's only for legitimate customers.

Over the years I've bought many DRM'd books and never had a problem with it. I'm puzzled why it would cause problems for anyone else. Did you get a useful answer back from where you bought your problem books?

Diggi · Jan 6, 2013

Could it be, that you first have got to register at adobe digital editions to be able to read DRM-books on your reader? Possibly that is the reason, why you can`t open the Amazon-DRM-books.
By the way, when a book is cracked by a pirate, the numbers of reader mostly increases, same with the author popularity...Hope the publishing industry won`t make the same mistakes as the music-industry.

Deleted member 42 · Jan 6, 2013

Diggi said:
Could it be, that you first have got to register at adobe digital editions to be able to read DRM-books on your reader? Possibly that is the reason, why you can`t open the Amazon-DRM-books.

No, that is NOT the reason.

Amazon uses an entirely different method of DRM than Adobe uses.

The reason legitimately purchased books from Amazon can't opened are usually because Amazon borked the file or the UID key is not for the Kindle account the person thought it was for; i.e. they have multiple accounts (and may not even know it).

Please, please, please! Say NO to DRM!

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace

J. Tanner

alleycat

Still around

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Blarg

Deleted member 42

leahzero

The colors! THE COLORS!

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

fivetoesten

Eriador117

Hobbit Botherer

sarahdalton

NinjaFingers

MMcDonald64

sarahdalton

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace

MMcDonald64

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace

BAY

christwriter

Resistance is Everything

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer

Diggi

Deleted member 42