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Old 12-18-2012, 12:28 PM   #1
AuroraRose
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Page Publishing

I don't know if there's been a topic on them already, but I've recently sent in my work to Page Publishing, and everything seemed fine until they mentioned on the phone that if they accept my manuscript, there will be some thousand dollars worth of "author investment" on my part. Being a new author, it's difficult enough to get published, and every time I think I have a lead it ends up being someone who just wants to take my money. I barely avoided this with Tate Publishing, thanks to this website; I don't want to be taken advantage of by another company.

Here's their website: http://www.pagepublishing.com/

I can't really find anything negative about them, but their name is too vague to really do a detailed search. They seem pretty new. I can't find anything published by them before April of this year. What are your thoughts?
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #2
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Looks like another Vanity Press to me. They have testimonials on their "About" page and zero information on their staff.

First thing that jumped out at me on the homepage:

Quote:
Most publishers don't even look at or respond to book submissions from new authors.
This is complete butkus. Publishers want to make money, they do that by selling books. How will they find new books to sell and the new authors writing them if they don't even look at submissions?

Any place that says this, or anything resembling this, makes my spidey senses tingle. The Big Publisher bad! We understand your pain, type stuff. IMO, it's there to prey on new and frustrated authors.

Quote:
Q. Where will my book be sold?

A. We publish our author’s books to Barnes & Nobles Nook Book Store, Apple’s iTunes and the Amazon Kindle store. We also make physical copies of your book available through our print on demand distributor. This allows traditional brick and mortar stores to stock your book. Book stores stock titles at their discretion- having your book in physical stores depends on its demand/success through other avenues.
Actually, it doesn't depend on demand/success. Brick and mortar stores don't stock POD books.

Quote:
It is in our direct interest to publicize your book in print media, on television/radio and online as aggressively as possible.
TV and radio too? Sign me up! I hope "online as aggressively as possible" doesn't mean spam the bejesus out of everyone.

Quote:
We utilize our established resources such as our in-house editors, proofreaders, design artists, cover artists and the like to ensure that your book is in perfect condition for publication.
Names? Qualifications?

Quote:
Unlike the old-time publishing houses, Page Publishing does not keep most of the proceeds from the sales of your book while passing only a small portion on to you the author as a “royalty”. Quite the opposite- all of the net proceeds from any sale are passed on to you, with Page Publishing receiving only a small commission if a sale occurs (typically 20 cents for books under $9.95 and 25 cents for all other priced books).
Apparently they forgot about the thousand dollar "author investment" the OP mentioned.

Quote:
To properly protect your work, you need to officially register the title with the United States Library of Congress. We will prepare all of the necessary forms for you to register your copyrighted book with the United States Library of Congress.

The Library of Congress also requires a complete physical copy of your book for registration. Our service includes submission of the completed application along with the hard copy deposits as required.
You have to register your own copyright, which costs more $$.

An author named Tom Avitabile seems to be a huge fan:

Quote:
“As the author of many successfully published novels, I urge all authors to work with Page Publishing. From copy editing and proofreading to cover design and publicity, the professionals at Page Publishing will get your book onto bookstore shelves fast! Don’t waste time trying to publish your book on your own- let the pros at Page Publishing do all the work for you.” – Tom Avitabile
But what books of Mr. Avitabile's I could find were not published by Page Publishing. I may have missed them, though.

I'm no expert by any means, so some of the more experienced folks on AW will probably come along and break it down for you further and in more detail. But they are not a traditional publisher, they're vanity. That much I can tell.
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Last edited by OhTheHorror; 12-18-2012 at 02:40 PM. Reason: had to add something.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #3
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Considering the use of an "endorsement" by an author not published by Page, sounds like another Publish America to me...
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:57 PM   #4
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Lack of transparency regarding "author investment"...

Mass of misinformation about publishing...

Testimonials...

Endorsement by an acclaimed, successful author I've never heard of...

Yup, cross this one off your list.

I'm intrigued by PP's address, 1 Penn Plaza Suite #6289, New York, NY 10119. It sounds prestigious but for all we know it could be just a mail drop.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliceshortcake View Post
I'm intrigued by PP's address, 1 Penn Plaza Suite #6289, New York, NY 10119. It sounds prestigious but for all we know it could be just a mail drop.
I did a little digging and their author endorsement is:

Quote:
a Senior V.P./Creative Director at a New York advertising firm, is a writer, director, and producer with numerous film and television credits.
Not 100% sure, many be waaaaay off, but the owner of Page Publishing and their endorser might be one and the same.

Both his titles were published by this place.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
Being a new author, it's difficult enough to get published, and every time I think I have a lead it ends up being someone who just wants to take my money.

AuroraRose, new authors get published every day. If you're looking for publishers, start with those whose books you read.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhTheHorror View Post

Not 100% sure, many be waaaaay off, but the owner of Page Publishing and their endorser might be one and the same.

Both his titles were published by this place.
So who knows!

Either way, looks like warning signs all around.

Stacia is absolutely correct, AuroraRose. Welcome - you will find many legitimate publishers here, and a genuine interest in protecting the author.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
I don't know if there's been a topic on them already, but I've recently sent in my work to Page Publishing, and everything seemed fine until they mentioned on the phone that if they accept my manuscript, there will be some thousand dollars worth of "author investment" on my part. Being a new author, it's difficult enough to get published, and every time I think I have a lead it ends up being someone who just wants to take my money. I barely avoided this with Tate Publishing, thanks to this website; I don't want to be taken advantage of by another company.

Here's their website: http://www.pagepublishing.com/

I can't really find anything negative about them, but their name is too vague to really do a detailed search. They seem pretty new. I can't find anything published by them before April of this year. What are your thoughts?
If they asked for money over the phone, the answer is clear: no.

The problem with vanity presses (aside from the obvious money out of your pocket) is it doesn't say anything about your work, good or bad. When everything is accepted as long as the author coughs up the cash, you could be the next Stephen King or you could've sent 200 pages of incoherent nonsense. It's all the same to them.

Technically speaking in this day and age, getting published is easy. You go to Lulu or PubIt or whatever and upload your manuscript, and done. Now, to get published by a company whose name carries weight, that is known for being very selective about what they publish, that's the challenge.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JinxVelox View Post
So who knows!

Either way, looks like warning signs all around.
Oh, yeah. Lots of 'em.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:46 PM   #10
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Mr Avitabile is the director of Sid Paterson Advertising, which is based in New York but doesn't share Page Publishing's address.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:31 PM   #11
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According to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Penn_Plaza
One Penn Plaza has 57 floors, indicating that #6289 would be on the 6th floor.
Also according to Wikipedia, "URS Corporation New York City Office occupies most of the 6th and 7th floors"

The Wikipedia article on URS Corporation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URS_Corporation
Lists it as "an engineering, design and construction firm and a U.S. federal government contractor. " and "#275 on FORTUNE's List of America's 500 Largest Companies".

Don't know whether this means that he Wikipedia is out of date, or URS is renting a suite on one of their floors to this publisher.

Per whois, the domain is registered through a proxy service. (Most businesses register their domain to their business at their business address. Proxy registration is common for individuals; I've done it myself. Who wants every loony on the internet to be able to look up my home address?).

So, I decided to verify that "Page Publishing" was a registered business name in New York, since the registration would have to give a bit more information:
http://appext9.dos.ny.gov/corp_publi...results_page=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY.Gov
Code:
Selected Entity Name: PAGE PUBLISHING, INC.
Selected Entity Status Information
Current Entity Name:	PAGE PUBLISHING, INC.
DOS ID #:	4140538
Initial DOS Filing Date:	SEPTEMBER 12, 2011
County:	NEW YORK
Jurisdiction:	NEW YORK
Entity Type:	DOMESTIC BUSINESS CORPORATION
Current Entity Status:	ACTIVE

Selected Entity Address Information
DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity)
JONATHON BREEN
1 PEN PLAZA SUITE 6289
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10119


*Stock Information
# of Shares	Type of Stock	$ Value per Share
200	No Par Value	
*Stock information is applicable to domestic business corporations.

Name History
Filing Date	Name Type	Entity Name
SEP 12, 2011	Actual	PAGE PUBLISHING, INC.
A Fictitious name must be used when the Actual name of a foreign entity is unavailable for use in New York State. The entity must use the fictitious name when conducting its activities or business in New York State.
The SEC EDGAR datatabase has no record of a company with that name. I'm not sure what type of corporation Page Publishing is registered as, or what the various filing rules are (i.e. where else we could look for informaiton).

Searches for "JJonathon Breen" or "John Breen" or "Jon Breen", even when filtered with an AND "New York", turn up a variety of people, none of which are clearly the founder of Page Publishing.

Likewise, I can't find any reference to "SUITE 6289" other than Page Publishing's page, the company name filing, and this thread.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
...they mentioned on the phone that if they accept my manuscript, there will be some thousand dollars worth of "author investment" on my part.
That's all you need to hear. They're a vanity press. Cross them off your list.

Quote:
I can't really find anything negative about them...
They gave you all the negative you need to hear, right there on the phone.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:14 PM   #13
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:29 AM   #14
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Thanks for being so quick with your research! It's great not feeling so alone in this. They said they'd get back to me in a week about whether or not my manuscript is worth publishing, which also felt like a warning sign. Surely they should have other things more important to do than read my stuff.

I'm kind of hoping I misheard though, since every brochure they sent me (yes, they sent me a packet of brochures) said that they wouldn't take my money. I even asked them when they first called if I would have to pay and they said I wouldn't. Until that bit at the end where they mentioned the investment. They were unclear about the number though, they said something along the lines of "author investment ranges from about $5000 to $20000," so I was hoping that was just extra money that the authors had decided to put toward advertising, or something. When I asked them to clarify who I would be giving the money to, they said I would give it to them (Page Publishing), but then they wouldn't take any of my royalties until my money had been paid back.

I'm kind of confused at this point. If they really don't ask me for any money up front, I would consider working with them, but this thread has me thinking that wouldn't be a good idea. I wish companies like this would stop pretending they're the real deal.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
They said they'd get back to me in a week about whether or not my manuscript is worth publishing, which also felt like a warning sign.
It felt like a warning sign because it was.

Quote:
I'm kind of hoping I misheard though, since every brochure they sent me (yes, they sent me a packet of brochures) said that they wouldn't take my money.
Ever heard of Penguin or Random House sending out brochures? They said they wouldn't but conveniently "forgot" to mention the 5 - 20 grand they mentioned to you on the phone.


Quote:
They were unclear about the number though, they said something along the lines of "author investment ranges from about $5000 to $20000," so I was hoping that was just extra money that the authors had decided to put toward advertising, or something.
No. They want your money, period. Always remember that money flows to the author, never away.

Quote:
When I asked them to clarify who I would be giving the money to, they said I would give it to them (Page Publishing), but then they wouldn't take any of my royalties until my money had been paid back.
That's if your money is ever paid back in sales. All three of their authors listed in the Authors page are ranked from 231,093 to 912,354 in the Amazon sales rankings, one of their author's books is "not available."

Their "acclaimed author" endorser, Tom Avitabile's, two books are ranked 1,623,000 and 3,177,269.

Make of it what you will, but it doesn't look promising.

Quote:
I'm kind of confused at this point. If they really don't ask me for any money up front, I would consider working with them, but this thread has me thinking that wouldn't be a good idea.
PublishAmerica doesn't ask for money up front, but you can be sure the author pays. Vanity presses get your money wether they get it at the front or back end.

Either way, you, the author, pays.
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Last edited by OhTheHorror; 12-19-2012 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Used 'sells' instead of 'sales'. *hangs head* Thanks, DreamWeaver!
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:43 AM   #16
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I'll bet they're unclear as to how much they charge because it depends on how much the author is willing to pay. We've heard this before from other pay-to-play outfits; if the author refuses to pay the first quoted price he or she might get a phone call offering a "reduced" price.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
Thanks for being so quick with your research! It's great not feeling so alone in this. They said they'd get back to me in a week about whether or not my manuscript is worth publishing, which also felt like a warning sign. Surely they should have other things more important to do than read my stuff.

I'm kind of hoping I misheard though, since every brochure they sent me (yes, they sent me a packet of brochures) said that they wouldn't take my money. I even asked them when they first called if I would have to pay and they said I wouldn't. Until that bit at the end where they mentioned the investment. They were unclear about the number though, they said something along the lines of "author investment ranges from about $5000 to $20000," so I was hoping that was just extra money that the authors had decided to put toward advertising, or something. When I asked them to clarify who I would be giving the money to, they said I would give it to them (Page Publishing), but then they wouldn't take any of my royalties until my money had been paid back.

I'm kind of confused at this point. If they really don't ask me for any money up front, I would consider working with them, but this thread has me thinking that wouldn't be a good idea. I wish companies like this would stop pretending they're the real deal.
I don't know, never having been published, dealt with a publisher, etc, but why would they contact you by phone, if they haven't made a decision on the book, unless the money you were willing to put up was going to be a factor in their decision?
In most of the accounts I've heard here, you're contacted after the publisher makes up their mind, unless they have an actual question about the book.

And, regarding the bolded bit "they wouldn't take any of my royalties until my money had been paid back" : publishers pay royalties, they don't take them.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:33 AM   #18
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:44 AM   #19
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Agree with Gravity, and with Jim. Run, run, run.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frimble3 View Post
I don't know, never having been published, dealt with a publisher, etc, but why would they contact you by phone, if they haven't made a decision on the book, unless the money you were willing to put up was going to be a factor in their decision?
In most of the accounts I've heard here, you're contacted after the publisher makes up their mind, unless they have an actual question about the book.

And, regarding the bolded bit "they wouldn't take any of my royalties until my money had been paid back" : publishers pay royalties, they don't take them.
This. It's not weird to have an agent or editor tell you, "I'll get back to you at such-and-such a date." It is weird to get a direct phone call from someone you have no prior business relationship with.

It's the Internet. Anyone can say, "I'm a publisher." Heck, if I had no morals, I could say that. I could ask for submissions, no money upfront, plop whatever manuscripts I get on Lulu, and take half the profits. (See? I pay 50% royalties! And you'll be a published author! Aren't you happy?)

Again, publishing is not hard. Publishing well is hard. Vanity presses thrive on you being so desperate you won't notice the difference.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:33 AM   #21
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Being a snoopy sort (though not as much as aliceshortcake, who always finds the interesting tidbits to share in BR&BC), I contacted Tom Avitabile to ask about his endorsement, and to explain that some authors were inquiring as to whether or not the publisher is legitimate, and he had this to say:

Quote:
As far as I know, Page Publishing is by no means a scam of any sort, all of my dealings with them have been great and I have recommended them to family. To date I have never heard anyone say anything negative about Page. In fact, I can’t imagine why anyone other than a competitor would say something negative about them, given their very recent emergence on the scene. Yours is the first question to ever arise. If I hear anything else or find anything to the contrary from what I have stated, I will inform you. Do you know what on what basis the claim is being made? Being a recent startup, at this point I think they have less clients than the fingers on my left hand.

Tom Avitabile
I didn't say anyone was claiming anything or stating anything negative; just that there were authors with questions. *shrugs* But there you have it - his endorsement, at least, is legit. On what level he is involved with Page, I do not know.

But as Jim so succinctly put it, vanity press. The end.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by OhTheHorror View Post
. . . Their "acclaimed author" endorser, Tom Avitabile's, two books are ranked 1,623,000 and 3,177,269. . . . .
Meaning that A copy of each sold, some time ago, approximately.

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Old 12-26-2012, 11:18 PM   #23
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So they got back to me, said they loved my book so much that they're only asking me about $5000 to publish it (down from $20000, apparently). The contract they sent me looks all right, I suppose, but I really feel uncomfortable about making that kind of an investment, especially since they're only printing 50 books to send me and using POD otherwise. I've submitted to a LOT of places though, agents and publishers alike, and have been battered pretty badly by rejections thus far. Even seeing all the previous posts, a part of me just wants to take the deal.

Someone please talk some sense into me? I do want to be a real author someday; I know this isn't the way to go about it. It's just painful having spent six years on a novel it seems that no one but vanity publishing actually wants.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:43 PM   #24
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It's just painful having spent six years on a novel it seems that no one but vanity publishing actually wants.
It'll be far, far more painful to pay this outfit a lot of money. Due to lack of marketing and distribution your book will almost inevitably end up languishing on Amazon with virtually no sales, just like Mr Avitabile's. Plus, however good your book may be it won't be taken seriously as a publishing credit because you paid to see it in print.

By the way, would you mind sharing the contract with us?
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:57 PM   #25
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Aurora, don't do this, as I said in my rep. You will probably toss away $5000 for some badly-formatted books with absolutely no marketing, and maybe (if you are lucky) get 20 to 50 sales out of it.

Six years is nothing. I have trunked books that I started decades ago. Some of them might get another look, most will not. Most of my early novels will probably never sell, for good reason: they are terrible, and I can see that now.

If you can't sell this book after several years, put it aside for a while. Go write another one, and another after that. Learn from each one. This is the only sane way. If you must publish the thing or go mad, then clean it up as best you can and self-publish it. That will be cheaper, and you'll make better royalties than with a vanity/ subsidy press. Either way, you would have to do your own promotion and marketing, so why not? There's far less stigma in self-publishing, these days.

By the way: book #6 took me three months to write, two months to sell to a big e-publisher, and it has sold reasonably well since its release last July.
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