Revival of the serialized novel?

strictlytopsecret · Sep 9, 2012

Just ran across this tidbit (perhaps it's older than I thought, but it was new to me), and thought it might be worthy of discussion.

Dickens would be proud.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57...-into-book-subscriptions-with-kindle-serials/

Your thoughts?

~STS~

James D. Macdonald · Sep 9, 2012

It'll make things really uncomfortable if you decide half-way through that chapter one needs to be entirely re-written and that Karen should have been named Kristin.

Note that serials aren't new. E-book serials aren't new. I'm really not seeing anything new.

There have been, I think, two really major changes in publishing in the recent past: In the early 18th century authors went from being supported by patrons to selling their works to booksellers. In the early-to-mid 19th century copyright gave writers control of their own works.

Everything else has been working out the details.

Rubay H. · Sep 9, 2012

I'm glad to see serialized fiction make a comeback and feel it's perfect for e-readers and smart phone readers.
But $1.99 a series? That's great for readers, but what I want to know is, is that price just to get readers in the door or will they raise it to $4.99 or some other price later and what is the royalty split for authors?

I know that a few self-pubbed authors sent some inquiries to Amazon to find out more details and the e-mail they got back was pretty vague.

I do have a story on my back-burner that could easily be a serial - actually, that was how I was going to release it myself, but until I know more details, I'll just be watching for now.

dangerousbill · Sep 9, 2012

James D. Macdonald said:
It'll make things really uncomfortable if you decide half-way through that chapter one needs to be entirely re-written and that Karen should have been named Kristin.

Agree. If Amazon plugs it into their current business model, the whole concept would run downhill very fast. The biggest problem would be serials that peter out after a few chapters. They'd want to have the entire novel in hand before allowing the first installment to go to 'press'.

I imagine their embracing of serials is a financial decision. A ten-part book that sells for $1 per installment is going to bring in more money than the same book that won't support a $10 selling price. (Although Amazon says that you'll pay for the whole book up front.)

bearilou · Sep 9, 2012

Rubay H. said:
I do have a story on my back-burner that could easily be a serial - actually, that was how I was going to release it myself, but until I know more details, I'll just be watching for now.

Same and same.

Taking a wait-and-see approach.

LBlankenship · Sep 9, 2012

FWIW...

I'm nearing the end of an awkward-sized fantasy story that broke neatly into six pieces. None of the pieces is big enough to qualify as a fantasy novel by modern standards. (Together, they should make a fair door-stop.)

I'm going to publish the individual parts, one after another, starting with Part I this November. By that time, I'll be working on Part VI -- so there's little risk of me leaving it unfinished.

Is it a serial? A series of six books? How small do the chunks have to be for it to be a "serial"?

Rubay H. · Sep 9, 2012

LBlankenship said:
Is it a serial? A series of six books? How small do the chunks have to be for it to be a "serial"?

I believe Amazon wanted at least 10,000 word or more installments. I'm not sure what the standard is, though.

Katie Elle · Sep 10, 2012

From what I've been able to glean, it's a one time price. The release loss leader is $1.99, but that will go higher. Authors submit a spec and two installments of roughly 10,000 words each and the estimated number of installments for completion. I'm pretty sure they don't want the full work as they make specific mention of dedicated message boards allowing authors to interact with readers and adapt the story based on feedback.

This is not part of KDP, it's Amazon acting as a "trade publisher." That's a pity because serials are doing very well on KDP and the $2.99 for 70% commission thing is a real buzz kill for them.

I see the whole thing as pretty flawed other than as a PR gimmick. The great thing about a serial is that it's open ended. You don't want to be locked into an early one time price. That actually encourages you to wrap it asap, even if its doing well, you're having fun, and the plot is dragging you in longer directions. I don't mean writers will walk away from it without completion, but this is a business. If you priced for a 50k novella, you might add a couple of installments, but you're probably not going to go all Game of Thrones with it. Instead you're going to have the silliest thing imaginable, a sequel serial to a serial.

amrose · Sep 10, 2012

Katie Elle said:
they make specific mention of dedicated message boards allowing authors to interact with readers and adapt the story based on feedback.

Yikes.

That's a breeding ground for some serious author/reader altercations. You can't please all the readers and I don't think anyone should try.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

James D. Macdonald said:
It'll make things really uncomfortable if you decide half-way through that chapter one needs to be entirely re-written and that Karen should have been named Kristin.

I've run three online serials over the last few years and what you do is you write and edit the whole novel first, before you put it online. However, while you're running it you do get the opportunity to change things in response to reader feedback, which is an extremely interesting mechanism. I had a moment where the teen love triangle apparently wasn't working because the readers hated one of the characters, and we had to edit the next few days to make him more likeable. There was also the time that the readers picked up a subtle continuity error and we had to fix that with some nifty weaselry. So there are problems but also opportunities.

Another benefit of the online serial is that it can - if you put it in the right place - fit in to the rhythms of people's online lives in a natural way. I'm looking in to ways to make it work commercially at the moment.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

amrose said:
Yikes.

That's a breeding ground for some serious author/reader altercations. You can't please all the readers and I don't think anyone should try.

Nope, works fine in my experience. Any annoyance about things not going the way someone wanted is apparently overcome by enjoyment at being included. Check out Fiction Express, for instance - they've been going for a while and don't appear to have exploded in acrimony.

amrose · Sep 10, 2012

Torgo said:
Check out Fiction Express, for instance - they've been going for a while and don't appear to have exploded in acrimony.

This is a cool program.

I'm still dubious about it on Amazon. I think this would depend on how reader contributions and moderation is set up. With Fiction Express, you have, I'm assuming (read the about us and FAQ pages, but I could be wrong,) a teacher moderating the submitting students and then a voting system to pare down to the winning submission. That works.

My above comments were a reaction to the quality of comment/review I see on Amazon and how ragey some people (and authors) get over them. It's also a reaction to all the bad author/reader interactions I've seen recently. I'm being knee-jerky.

veinglory · Sep 10, 2012

A lot of companies have tried to revive the serial in ebook form. Most are now out of business. It's quite an old "new" idea. I sank one book into a serials publisher and was saved only because they folded before it was published. Others are still around but I see no evidence that sales compare favorably to just publishing the book. As an author I would very much take a 'wait and see' attitude.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

amrose said:
With Fiction Express, you have, I'm assuming (read the about us and FAQ pages, but I could be wrong,) a teacher moderating the submitting students and then a voting system to pare down to the winning submission. That works.

No, the way Fiction Express works is that there's a single author per book, and an either/or choice at the end of each chapter; the author essentially has a week to write the next chapter based on what the community votes. Students don't submit anything but votes. So it's a bit of a leap in the dark from a plotting point of view, but it does seem to work.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

veinglory said:
A lot of companies have tried to revive the serial in ebook form. Most are now out of business. It's quite an old "new" idea. I sank one book into a serials publisher and was saved only because they folded before it was published.

The main problem is the lack of a method to sell serials. The only real place to make a lot of money at the mo is Amazon, and they are only just getting around to supporting that model.

veinglory · Sep 10, 2012

Torgo said:
The main problem is the lack of a method to sell serials. The only real place to make a lot of money at the mo is Amazon, and they are only just getting around to supporting that model.

Whihc is interesting bu Amazon has leapt at models that failed for them before (e.g. Amazon shorts). So i am not sure i would sign up to go first unless there is a publicity benefit.

James D. Macdonald · Sep 10, 2012

The way I see this shaking out: The first three people with decent writing chops will make some serious coin.

The next 300,000 will write up a storm ... for peanuts.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

Last time I ran a serial novel online, we racked up 110 million page impressions across the campaign. Monetising it, however, is another matter...

Deleted member 42 · Sep 10, 2012

See The City of Roses

By our own Kiplet.

Katie Elle · Sep 10, 2012

I don't think monetizing them is a problem, other than Amazon's pay once model. If you look at the background, the latest crop of breakout authors from the "self published" community are people writing erotic romance serials, mostly based on 50 Shades which was itself released as a serial.

Torgo · Sep 10, 2012

Katie Elle said:
I don't think monetizing them is a problem, other than Amazon's pay once model. If you look at the background, the latest crop of breakout authors from the "self published" community are people writing erotic romance serials, mostly based on 50 Shades which was itself released as a serial.

Was 50 Shades ever available to purchase as a serial? I thought only in the sense that it was released serially as fanfic...?

Katie Elle · Sep 10, 2012

That's what I meant, but it's very clear in the text that's how it was originally written, there are very clear cliffhanger points in the story and I think that's part of what appealed to people about it in the first place. Certainly even at the $2.99/installment price point, people are gobbling these up.

I can't remember which board, but I read at least one of the people with a successful one rejecting the pay once model as unappealing.

KalenO · Sep 10, 2012

Yeah, the subscription method Amazon is trying out here is interesting to me, but not allowing the author to set the price point is a serious flaw. I self pub under a pen name on Amazon and already do a serialized novel at $1.99 per each 20K installment, and its consistently one of my top sellers, easily comparable to my best selling non-serialized releases. What possible incentive would I have to use their program then, and only charge 1.99 for the whole 100K story? Not to mention it devalues the rest of my brand, because if the serialized stories are automatically 1.99 for a full 80-100K, why should anyone pay 3.99 for a work of the same length?

As a one time loss leader, banking on Amazon putting a big promotional push behind all books initially enrolled in this program, there's some potential, but other than that there isn't really much point in this for writers, IMO.

Katie Elle · Sep 10, 2012

Question about the $1.99 pricepoint. I've heard this described as a "black hole" that supposedly sells lower volume than comparables at $2.99. Plus you don't get the 70% commission. Do you feel any desire to up that to $2.99 so you can get your 70% commission?

KalenO · Sep 10, 2012

Katie Elle said:
Question about the $1.99 pricepoint. I've heard this described as a "black hole" that supposedly sells lower volume than comparables at $2.99. Plus you don't get the 70% commission. Do you feel any desire to up that to $2.99 so you can get your 70% commission?

No, but only because I value my brand more than I do my earnings from any one individual story. I make it clear that I price my stories according to length/word count, and my serialized novel installments fall definitively in the 1.99 price point/word count range according to the system I set up. Since a fair amount of what I self publish are shorter works, I credit this consistency with being a large factor in my building a regular audience for my works. All in all, it doesn't seem to hurt me much either, as most of my readers seem to purchase all my works across the board, judging from sales and feedback.

Revival of the serialized novel?

practical experience, FTW

Your Genial Uncle

Retired Illuminatus

DenturePunk writer

VPXV 4EVA

is Envy Augustine

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

is Envy Augustine

volitare nequeo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

volitare nequeo

Your Genial Uncle

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Deleted member 42

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW