A lot of people here have a lot to say, and that is a good thing. It keeps things lively and interesting. But what do you do if you see someone passing bad advice off as fact? I try not to post when I see this happen, but I feel bad for the writer asking for help. Some people seem to think they know everything. How do you add a comment without it turning into a brawl?
Bad Advice
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By replying to the OP with your own advice and viewpoint. AW is a writers' community, and the boards are set up for discussion. What might be good advice for one writer might be bad for another, and what you consider to be bad advice might be just the thing that helps something click for another member. Something that might not be of any use to you right now could end up being useful for your next WIP. Be polite when you contribute, consider what others say, and ultimately everyone benefits from seeing lots of different ways of approaching something.
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Writing subjective anyways. Nobody is "wrong" much as they are "against popular opinion".
There either has to be a good reason why those people are against the opinion of others, with a logical explanation to make sense. Or they are confusing something, or just not getting the point of something.
We all make mistakes, we all screw up. But we never learn if we don't correct those mistakes.
If you want to "correct" someone, try it in a academic way. Don't force it upon them or to change their thinking, just state what you believe is correct. It's their choice to take the learning experience or not. A little pleasantry goes a long way too.
It's also up to the questioner to take up the good/bad advice as they wish.
And remember, no one honestly wishes to mislead people (unless that's their goal).
There either has to be a good reason why those people are against the opinion of others, with a logical explanation to make sense. Or they are confusing something, or just not getting the point of something.
We all make mistakes, we all screw up. But we never learn if we don't correct those mistakes.
If you want to "correct" someone, try it in a academic way. Don't force it upon them or to change their thinking, just state what you believe is correct. It's their choice to take the learning experience or not. A little pleasantry goes a long way too.
It's also up to the questioner to take up the good/bad advice as they wish.
And remember, no one honestly wishes to mislead people (unless that's their goal).
There's nothing wrong with voicing disagreement with another person's views as long as you do so in a respectful manner. Of course, you should ask yourself, "Do I need to voice my disagreement with this idea?" If not, if you feel that you simply disagree on the advice rather than feeling it is outright wrong, then you can always simply give your own opinion without necessarily responding to the other user in question.
A civil debate on ideas about writing is not only beneficial to the person the advice is intended for but other readers. The person who gives the advice you see as "bad" may realize their mistake if you voice your opinion in a reasonable manner. Or you may even reconsider your views on the advice given. A discussion allows both sides to expand upon their arguments, providing more for all readers to consider. If the other person does not seem like they want to have a rational and civilized discussion over the matter, there's no need to push it.
A civil debate on ideas about writing is not only beneficial to the person the advice is intended for but other readers. The person who gives the advice you see as "bad" may realize their mistake if you voice your opinion in a reasonable manner. Or you may even reconsider your views on the advice given. A discussion allows both sides to expand upon their arguments, providing more for all readers to consider. If the other person does not seem like they want to have a rational and civilized discussion over the matter, there's no need to push it.
Through the use of much snarking, screencaps, animated GIF's and the occasional link to SlushPileHell. Oh, and if there's flouncing, we give points.
(j/k - no one hit me with a mod-stick)
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Well, there's "as polite as possible" and then there's the writerly version of "as polite as possible". Sometimes there's an overlap.
I thought it was "politely IF possible," but there's also the possibility I don't know everything yet.
I was going to post, but Sophia already said it perfectly. PERFECTLY, I SAY. SHE IS TOTALLY RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A DUMBFACE.
Ahem.
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It's always possible to say things politely. Indeed that can be more devastating than direct insults. See the writings of Judith Martin (Miss Manners) for the art of gentle correction.
As to the OP. Bad Advice comes in many forms. But the primary characteristic of bad advice is that it does not stand up against the test of reality. The easiest way to argue against it is to show what the consequences are most likely to be if someone follows the bad advice.
Givers of bad advice under these circumstances will often spin outlandish tales to justify their bad advice, trying to explain why despite the test of reality their ideas must work.
The more they have to do this the more obvious their bad advice will be.
Unless the person receiving the advice is so enamored of it that they ignore all warnings and reason. In which case there is little to do except leave a light on in the window so that when people do learn that they made a mistake they can come back and do better.
Please note: The above process has one flaw. If in examining the consequences of advice one does not pay attention to reality (or thanks to ignorance does not know what aspects of reality to pay attention to) one can end up being the giver of bad advice when one thinks one is helping someone avoid bad advice.
So be cautious in advising and cautious in challenging. But don't leave people alone with nothing but bad advice.
I think that's good advice, but you never know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MInOApCkA98
What are you defining as bad advice?
Getting facts wrong? Cause if they are getting facts wrong it's a pretty good idea to supply accurate information with resources so it can be followed up on.
Or the more subjective stuff, like what makes a great story?
Different opinions on story telling stuff is great to have, cause one might work better then the other.
Getting facts wrong? Cause if they are getting facts wrong it's a pretty good idea to supply accurate information with resources so it can be followed up on.
Or the more subjective stuff, like what makes a great story?
Different opinions on story telling stuff is great to have, cause one might work better then the other.
Thanks for all the posts. I am talking about facts or truths to how something works. I know everyone works differently, but there are laws and/or processes that work a certain way. It drives me nuts when I see people try to give advice as factual when it is clear to me they don't know what they are talking about. I'm also not looking to start any fights.
It helps when you can back up your correction by simply stating what your own experience is.
For example, if someone laments that agents only request pages from already-famous writers, I can point out that this is either not always true or I am famous without knowing it.
For example, if someone laments that agents only request pages from already-famous writers, I can point out that this is either not always true or I am famous without knowing it.
I had this today on another board. Someone claiming that anything outside of big six is basically self-published, you know, even when it's not self-published.
Now, while this normally wouldn't bother me and I would normally shrug off opinions like this. It was offered as advice to someone with little to no knowledge of the industry.
The only thing you can do is put forward the facts as you know them. It's unlikely to change the opinion of the person offering the advice but it might offer balance to the person asking.
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And if it's truly heinous (libel, threatening, spam), click the "report post" button, the one that looks like a red triangle with a black exclamation point under the poster's information, and a mod will investigate.
Keep in mind, with subjective processes, there are many ways to approach them. That's why I often fall back on 'Your Mileage May Vary', because I know what works for me.
I rely on these forums for an informed, professional consensus. And the flouncing can be really entertaining, too.
I'm certainly not immune - I've been called out any number of times for typing without thinking. I'm actually grateful for the experience, and even more grateful that the mods let me back in.
That said, if I see dangerous, unethical, or possibly illegal advice, I will try to respond as politely as possible.
I rely on these forums for an informed, professional consensus. And the flouncing can be really entertaining, too.
I'm certainly not immune - I've been called out any number of times for typing without thinking. I'm actually grateful for the experience, and even more grateful that the mods let me back in.
That said, if I see dangerous, unethical, or possibly illegal advice, I will try to respond as politely as possible.
I'm not entirely certain what you'd define bad writing advice as. Writing is such a very subjective process; about the only thing I'm certain of is that you shouldn't write a novel in which Hitler's the hero. I mean, I can imagine someone saying, "I do all my best writing upside down. Therefore, everyone should write upside down," but I can't see how that would really hurt someone. So many of the writing books I've read have essentially said, "Hey this is how it works for me; it may not work for you," and I've found that's mostly true of writing advice: some of it works, some of it doesn't, and all that matters is what works for you.
The point is really to help other writers. We can't do that effectively if we pretend all advice holds equal merit. As egalitarian as that sounds, it's just not so. While writing is indeed subjective, and some of the finest novels I read break "the rules," patently bad advice does crop up now and again.
When I see writing advice I disagree with, I try to focus on providing a better alternative as opposed to creating an argument with whoever extended the poor advice. After all, they were trying to help and there is no point in besting or shaming them.
When I see writing advice I disagree with, I try to focus on providing a better alternative as opposed to creating an argument with whoever extended the poor advice. After all, they were trying to help and there is no point in besting or shaming them.
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It produces fewer hard feelings if you say, "Alas, I find I cannot bring myself to agree with you 100%...." rather than "You flaming Red-naped Sapsucker! If they could take back your fifth-grade graduation certificate they would!"
I'm a pretty easy going guy, never one to rush into a potential conflict, plus I do more lurking than posting around these parts anyway, so I usually let someone else call out the bad advice if I see it. The good thing about AW is that even in the wackiest of threads, if you wait long enough, someone who knows what the hell they're talking about will wander in. So I don't usually say anything.
That being said, I did call someone out in a thread once, only because that person was giving consistently wacky advice to new writers in multiple threads and I couldn't take it anymore. So I posted a pretty long message (politely) explaining that you might want to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you start handing instructions out like a wise old sage. That person, to my knowledge, has never posted here again (at least not under that screen name). They also completely deleted a writing advice blog they'd just started up. When I realized all that seemingly came as a result of my post, all I could hear was Urkle's voice in my head. "Did I do that?"
That being said, I did call someone out in a thread once, only because that person was giving consistently wacky advice to new writers in multiple threads and I couldn't take it anymore. So I posted a pretty long message (politely) explaining that you might want to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you start handing instructions out like a wise old sage. That person, to my knowledge, has never posted here again (at least not under that screen name). They also completely deleted a writing advice blog they'd just started up. When I realized all that seemingly came as a result of my post, all I could hear was Urkle's voice in my head. "Did I do that?"
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I want to know what the bad advice was...in case I don't know its bad advice. I probably do know its bad advice. But I'm paranoid.
Quoted to hold against madame David at a later date.Yeah, I really need to cut back on that.
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