A cautionary tale for bloggers!

Angie · Jul 26, 2012

Hello, everyone -

I don't frequent this subforum much, but I found this article today and had to share it:

http://www.roniloren.com/blog/2012/...can-get-sued-for-using-pics-on-your-blog.html

I think it's a rather important post for writers, particularly those with blogs, because I know a lot of people think fair use means to grab any image from the web, add commentary, and just say where you got it. That's not the case at all. Unless you're getting your images from Creative Commons, a subscription stock image site, or have express written permission from the photo's owner, you can be sued. Even as a small-time blogger.

This is a really good article, and I wanted to give everyone here a heads-up in case you've been using images improperly without even realizing it.

-Ang

Pyekett · Jul 26, 2012

That is a calm, composed, thoughtful, and informative piece on problematic images. Thanks.

Angie · Jul 26, 2012

Pyekett said:
That is a calm, composed, thoughtful, and informative piece on problematic images. Thanks.

Agreed. I'm not sure I would be able to be as calm as her if I'd been the one sued. But I definitely see the photog's point -- we, as writers, would be livid if someone hijacked one of our books and started giving it away free on their site. It's a sticky, confusing issue, and best to err on the side of caution.

Polenth · Jul 26, 2012

The thing that surprised me is that no one in the writing community told him that was the case. When people post here thinking they can use any image from Google images, they get a bunch of replies telling them it doesn't work that way.

Angie · Jul 26, 2012

Polenth said:
The thing that surprised me is that no one in the writing community told him that was the case. When people post here thinking they can use any image from Google images, they get a bunch of replies telling them it doesn't work that way.

Well, not every writer is a member of AW. (Insane, I know, but true.

) And even then, I've run into several people who still think as long as they add attribution or a link, they're covered. That's just not the case.

And those disclaimers on some sites that go something like this: "Images on this site belong to their copyright holders, and no copyright infringement is intended" mean NOTHING. Intent does not matter in the eyes of the law on this issue, which is something a lot of people don't seem to understand.

leahzero · Jul 26, 2012

This story sets off warning flags, but not the kind she’s talking about.

If she was using the photo in a noncommercial way on a noncommercial blog, it’s extremely unlikely the photographer could have successfully sued her. Especially since she claims to have gotten the image through Google image search. That means the image was not protected or hidden, but was indexed by Google. Or she got a copy from someone else who illegally posted a copy that was searchable by Google. Or any number of complex means of finding this image.

Which would have been used in her defense if it had actually come to trial.

It sounds like the photographer simply scared her into paying with legal threats. I would like to hear more details about the resolution of this situation. Without that, her story is sad, but not very useful with its blanket warnings.

Think about how many people are blogging, using sites like Tumblr and Pinterest and Facebook, reblogging and sharing images in all sorts of ways, all over the internet. Almost everyone who uses the internet is a copyright violator in some way. But we don’t see photographers going after them en masse. The tide is against super-anal protection of copyrighted images.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 26, 2012

leahzero said:
This story sets off warning flags, but not the kind she’s talking about.

If she was using the photo in a noncommercial way on a noncommercial blog, it’s extremely unlikely the photographer could have successfully sued her. Especially since she claims to have gotten the image through Google image search. That means the image was not protected or hidden, but was indexed by Google. Or she got a copy from someone else who illegally posted a copy that was searchable by Google. Or any number of complex means of finding this image.

Failing to hide or protect an image is not the same thing as granting permission for its use, any more than failing to lock your front door is granting permission for your house to be burgled. In either case, the person taking your things for their use is committing a crime.

leahzero said:
It sounds like the photographer simply scared her into paying with legal threats. I would like to hear more details about the resolution of this situation. Without that, her story is sad, but not very useful with its blanket warnings.

Think about how many people are blogging, using sites like Tumblr and Pinterest and Facebook, reblogging and sharing images in all sorts of ways, all over the internet. Almost everyone who uses the internet is a copyright violator in some way. But we don’t see photographers going after them en masse. The tide is against super-anal protection of copyrighted images.

That doesn't make it right. The argument that lots of people are breaking the law doesn't wash. Many a speeding driver pulled over by the police has griped that lots of other people were speeding also. That doesn't make what they were doing right.

Angie · Jul 26, 2012

Alessandra Kelley said:
That doesn't make it right. The argument that lots of people are breaking the law doesn't wash. Many a speeding driver pulled over by the police has griped that lots of other people were speeding also. That doesn't make what they were doing right.

Right. And a photographer doesn't necessarily have the time/resources to prosecute everyone who steals their images. But prosecuting one blogger with a decent-sized readership may be this photographer's way of sending a message; namely, that it's not cool to just grab any old thing you find on Google and put it on your site.

Opinionated Ant · Jul 27, 2012

It does make me wonder about embedding pins onto my blog. In fact I'll be taking the one from today's post down and go through all my other posts. Sites like 500px, YouTube, and even Flickr make it easy to pin media. It gets confusing when the photographer pin their own pictures does that mean legally I shouldn't share them?

I've never taking a picture off of Google Images I use mostly my own pictures and before Pinterest always used CC at Flickr. Guess I'll go back to that. I first heard about this on Twitter via #mywana tweets starting a cc group http://www.flickr.com/groups/wana/.

rebekahmichel · Jul 27, 2012

I happened to read that blog post just yesterday. The reason why I decided to take my own pictures and change my avatars here and everywhere else I post, I don't want to get sued!

Silver-Midnight · Jul 27, 2012

Wow. Thanks for that. I reblogged a few posts on Tumblr. I'll be taking those down.

Does it count if it's a .gif or picture from a video game?

Old Hack · Jul 28, 2012

Silver-Midnight said:
Does it count if it's a .gif or picture from a video game?

Of course it does.

Unless the creator or owner of the image has given you specific written permission to use an image, or you're certain that you're ok to use it under a creative commons license, or the image is out of copyright, you should not use an image no matter where it's from or what it's of.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 28, 2012

Old Hack said:
Of course it does.

Unless the creator or owner of the image has given you specific written permission to use an image, or you're certain that you're ok to use it under a creative commons license, or the image is out of copyright, you should not use an image no matter where it's from or what it's of.

Well, I kind of knew it fell under the Creative Commons License but I was still unsure of some things about it. It was mostly reblogged images and quotes from a game that I like. (I use Tumblr). I know that obviously isn't an excuse or anything. I was still confused a bit. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dryad · Jul 28, 2012

I've always been careful about my blog, but I use Pinterest very freely and I wonder if that's a mistake.

Old Hack · Jul 29, 2012

Silver-Midnight said:
Well, I kind of knew it fell under the Creative Commons License but I was still unsure of some things about it. It was mostly reblogged images and quotes from a game that I like. (I use Tumblr). I know that obviously isn't an excuse or anything. I was still confused a bit. Thanks for clearing that up.

Are you sure you're using stuff under a Creative Commons license? It's worth checking the terms of that license and if the pieces you're using are really covered by it.

If you're blogging images and quotes from a game then you have to consider a couple of things: the creator of the images you're using might have put them out under the CCL: but the game itself might not be, and both you and the creator of the images might be infringing copyright there.

Please be careful. I have friends who work for games publishers: they are inclined to pursue people who infringe their copyrights, and they have enough money to do it.

Dryad said:
I've always been careful about my blog, but I use Pinterest very freely and I wonder if that's a mistake.

I don't have a Pinterest account: I've seen a couple of literary agents warn people away from it because the terms and conditions are not good. On top of that, it's so easy to infringe others' copyright there, and so many people are doing just that: in fact I chose half a dozen pages at random and every one of those users was infringing someone's copyright. As I said to Silver, please be careful.

meowzbark · Jul 29, 2012

Great article.

As the majority of the images I use are book covers and linked both to the source I found the image (Goodreads) and to several purchasing links, I doubt that I'll be sued for infringement. If anything, I'm putting money in their pockets.

All other images I use are found on free domains.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 29, 2012

Old Hack said:
Are you sure you're using stuff under a Creative Commons license? It's worth checking the terms of that license and if the pieces you're using are really covered by it.

If you're blogging images and quotes from a game then you have to consider a couple of things: the creator of the images you're using might have put them out under the CCL: but the game itself might not be, and both you and the creator of the images might be infringing copyright there.

Please be careful. I have friends who work for games publishers: they are inclined to pursue people who infringe their copyrights, and they have enough money to do it.

I removed them just to be safe.

I even changed my avatar to one covered by the Creative Commons License just in case. I don't want to get into any kind of trouble for anything.

Angie · Jul 29, 2012

Old Hack said:
I don't have a Pinterest account: I've seen a couple of literary agents warn people away from it because the terms and conditions are not good. On top of that, it's so easy to infringe others' copyright there, and so many people are doing just that: in fact I chose half a dozen pages at random and every one of those users was infringing someone's copyright. As I said to Silver, please be careful.

I used to be active on Pinterest, but after taking a closer look at the terms, I removed most of the stuff I had posted there. I also found out how the whole "but I'm sending the photographer/other copyright owner traffic" excuse doesn't wash. I pinned an image awhile back from my blog, which got repinned by a very popular blogger. My blog stats exploded, and I was thrilled, thinking I was getting hundreds of hits every day. Then I took a closer look, and realized that all those "visits" were just people loading that image on their computers. Maybe three people out of all those hundreds actually clicked through the link to my site.

So, long story short, if you think you're somehow helping a photographer by using his/her image because you're sending them traffic...you're really not. (I've heard this excuse a few times since I started posting this article, and it's just not true.)

Dryad · Jul 29, 2012

This is good info. Thanks for contributing, everyone!

Dryad · Jul 29, 2012

I found this helpful. It links to a blog entry on Pinterest copyright law written by a lawyer who is also a photographer.

I'm in the middle of removing my Pinterest boards now.

Opinionated Ant · Jul 29, 2012

Dryad said:
I found this helpful. It links to a blog entry on Pinterest copyright law written by a lawyer who is also a photographer.

I'm in the middle of removing my Pinterest boards now.

I've been cleaning up my pins one board at a time and thankfully I stopped repinning from tumblr early on.

I think that article, while very informative, was before Pinterest adjusted their TOS. Sorry I can't link from my NOOK very well.so will add it later.

areteus · Jul 30, 2012

In my experience, it is unfortunately up to the copyright holder to pursue it and many don't have the time nor inclination (and some don't mind because it gives them more exposure).

I have been approached by photographers or models asking me to remove photos from sites because they breach copyright. When they do, I comply and apologise. It is only polite. No one has tried to sue me, they have merely asked politely and explained their reasons. If you have to jump straight to threats of litigation it shows a general insecurity about your possession of said property and kicks things off on the wrong foot.

A friend of mine used to run a small, indepedent, non profit LRP game set in the world of Conan. He once got a cease and desist order from the lawyers of the Howard estate. He wrote and explained it was non-profit (with proof in the form of financial records) and they dropped all legal action because it was really not worth it. Similar situation as to bloggers, unless you are making a fortune with the images you are using they are unlikely to notice or care.

So, yes, it is illegal and should not happen, but like many laws enforcement is an issue. The reason why it happens a lot is because it is easy to do (often by mistake - the photographs I have been asked to remove were all added without being aware of the copyright situation and assuming they were open source) and no one bothers to pursue.

Angie · Jul 30, 2012

Just because no one's bothered to sue you yet doesn't mean no one ever will. It also doesn't mean it's okay to keep posting copyrighted works, on the basis of "I'll take it down if/when the photographer happens to find it and asks me to remove it."

At the end of the day, it's up to you. I just posted the link to give people a heads-up that yes, it is possible to be sued and yes, you can face heavy fines for copyright infringement.

Old Hack · Jul 30, 2012

Angie said:
Just because no one's bothered to sue you yet doesn't mean no one ever will. It also doesn't mean it's okay to keep posting copyrighted works, on the basis of "I'll take it down if/when the photographer happens to find it and asks me to remove it."

At the end of the day, it's up to you. I just posted the link to give people a heads-up that yes, it is possible to be sued and yes, you can face heavy fines for copyright infringement.

Yep.

Polenth · Aug 1, 2012

Silver-Midnight said:
Does it count if it's a .gif or picture from a video game?

In some cases, that would be considered fair use. Let's say you wrote a review of the game and posted it. Including a low resolution screenshot would be fair use, as it's used for the purposes of review/criticism. This is why book review sites can include a small quote from the book and a cover image without ending up in court every five minutes.

Using the same image as a forum avatar or on an unrelated post wouldn't be fair use.

For images in that category, I think it's important to go through them sometimes and ask if it's really fair use or not.

A cautionary tale for bloggers!

Shaddup and lemme think.

I need no hot / Words.

Shaddup and lemme think.

Mushroom

Shaddup and lemme think.

The colors! THE COLORS!

Sophipygian

Shaddup and lemme think.

I walk into things

Starving Artist

Such a nasty woman

Such a nasty woman

Shaddup and lemme think.

I walk into things

Shaddup and lemme think.

Such a nasty woman

Mushroom