Continue College, or Pursue a Dream?

mortimerjackson · Dec 5, 2011

So it's registration season here at SFSU, and after having been here one semester, I'm conflicted to all hell. I, like many, see college as something of a double-edged sword. I get a BA, which makes me eligible to find a professional job, but that doesn't mean that I'll get a professional job. Also, there's the issue of money, and how tuition rates keep spiking up at around the same time that administrator wages goes up (what an odd coincidence). Seeing the tuition bill for the next semester has only disheartened me even more. Especially since I know that it isn't my education in college that will land me a job, but rather my talents, ie: the things I can prove I can do.

You see, for the past four to five months I've been a self-published author. Fiction writing is something that I've always loved to do, and if I had things my way, it would be my job forever... and ever... sha la la la...

Anyway, the point is this. I've been doing self-publishing to basically build myself a resume. I want to one day either land myself a publisher, or a job where I write for some production company. So with this in mind, for the past four, five months that I've been doing this self-publishing gig, I've been able to net about 600 units in sales for my first book, and I've gotten several thousand downloads/views on all the short stories I post online. My point is that I'm doing alright. Not great. But for someone with basically no resources or marketing savvy, I'm doing a lot better than I thought I would.

Now, I don't really want this to sound like a self-indulgent plug, so I'll limit some details on what I'm about to say. But I'm working on expanding myself with a new project that'll be coming out soon. I've hired an editor, an illustrator, etc, and I'm really confident that this book will do well. But as I think about this little new project of mine, and I consider the minimal cost that I've put to get this into production versus the high cost of Spring tuition ($300 vs $2,000 at least, and not counting books), I've been asking myself which investment is more likely to bolster my name. Actually, not really. The answer is pretty clear to me.

But it isn't easy to let go of preconceived notions. Even if I know that the benefits of having a BA are limited, I still feel an obligation to go ahead and get one. But doing so will only eat up on expenses and time that I could be spending on building my writing career.

Jotting this all down, I realize that I might come across as being a little too optimistic about my chances for success. But seeing as to how most of you here have been writing for a lot longer than I have, I want to know what you think. Would I be better off spending my college money on producing content, or should I give in to the dark side and get an overpriced diploma?

mccardey · Dec 5, 2011

mortimerjackson said:
seeing as to how most of you here have been writing for a lot longer than I have, I want to know what you think. Would I be better off spending my college money on producing content, or should I give in to the dark side and get an overpriced diploma?

Overpriced diploma. Because your writing career is going to happen in its own time. It's not like being a celebrity, where you have to cash in on the moment. If you want a career as a writer, it's going to take time. There's no way to rush it.

And education is a privilege - to be grateful for.

So -

Diploma.

That's my 2c. But it's your decision. Good luck with it

LilGreenBookworm · Dec 5, 2011

I would stay in school. The last thing you want (or I'd want for you) is to have your writing career not take off and then you have nothing to fall back on. Even if you don't use it now, you might need the degree later.

FTR: I'm 25, I have a BA, and I can't do a damn thing with it. I don't like being in debt for something I can't use, but I'm super grateful that it will be there when I find that employer willing to give me a shot.

Best of luck with your decision, and your writing career.

Lady MacBeth · Dec 5, 2011

mccardey said:
Overpriced diploma. Because your writing career is going to happen in its own time. It's not like being a celebrity, where you have to cash in on the moment. If you want a career as a writer, it's going to take time. There's no way to rush it.

I have to agree. You mention you are pursuing a BA, though you don't state your major. You could consider a marketing degree or something in creative writing that would further your dream.

These decisions are never easy. Good luck!

SPMiller · Dec 5, 2011

Diploma then dream. If the worst case becomes true, you can always fall back on the diploma, and maybe someday after that, the best case will become true.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 5, 2011

Get the BA.

Just because you love writing doesn't mean you'll ever earn a living at it. There's a reason for the cliche, "Don't quit your day job." It's damned good advice.

Stay in school. Pursue a career in which you can make a decent living. Work on your writing during your free time.

thothguard51 · Dec 5, 2011

Get the degree, now, while you still can. If you leave, you will find its harder to return than if you had stayed.

As to the writing thingy, there is no time limit, young or old, it will happen when it happens...

PaulyWally · Dec 5, 2011

mortimerjackson said:
Especially since I know that it isn't my education in college that will land me a job, but rather my talents, ie: the things I can prove I can do.

There is a lot of truth to that. But don't dismiss the fact that a lack of education will also close a lot of doors.

I'm going to guess that you are normal college age(?). If that's the case, what are you in such a hurry for? IMO, a lot of the time it takes to become a good writer isn't just practice and repetition. Much of it is having the life experiences required to formulate a story that people will find entertaining... and also knowing how to communicate it to them.

I'm not saying I know what is best for you. Only you know that. But your education (and your life experiences) are what you make of them. And diplomas aren't over-priced because of the cost of tuition. They are over-priced because the student doesn't take advantage of every opportunity.

All of that said, I just think you need to live. I mean really live. You can do that in college, or the peace corp, or as a barrista, or in the military, or backpacking across a country, or whatever. At your age, no amount of credits on your resume will help you as a writer as much as life experiences will.

My personal opinion... stay in college. It is SOOOO difficult to be taken serious without a degree nowadays. Also, college-educated people are who the majority of your audience will probably be. And you've got many, MANY years to do what you want and take risks for the betterment of your career.

BTW... I'm 38 and just graduated from college (again).

Polenth · Dec 5, 2011

The choice you've created is based on a misconception. You don't need to prove yourself through self-publishing to get publishing contracts. You do that by writing a great book and querying agents - which is free, other than perhaps a few stamps if you decide to use snail mail instead of email.

As you write short stories, you could submit them to magazines. Getting in a decent magazines will mean money and help with building a fanbase.

So you can spend the money on college and keep working on your writing. What it needs is an adjustment in thinking. Let your writing earn you money rather than draining your money.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 5, 2011

mortimerjackson said:
Especially since I know that it isn't my education in college that will land me a job, but rather my talents, ie: the things I can prove I can do.

This is pure bullshit. Sorry. But it's true. Because if you don't have that diploma, no one cares how freaking talented you are. Look at the economy now. It's a buyers market for businesses. They can pick and choose who they want and demand education and years of proven experience.

Talent won't even get you in the door these days. It's not even quantifiable in the job market, not like diplomas and experience. I know because when the economy went south, I lost my tech writing job and could not find another because I don't have the diploma, despite job experience, despite "talent." I can't even get past the gate keepers because they discard my resume right off the bat as not meeting their full criteria. I might match in experience. In talent. But the next guy has a diploma. Guess who gets called in?

And as time went on, without work, I started getting rejected for jobs because now I didn't have "current skills." I had obsolesced.

No. Take your talent and put it toward getting the best education you can.

jjdebenedictis · Dec 5, 2011

I'll be a lone dissenting voice, but not necessarily the way you think.

I do think getting an education is a good idea; you should do it.

However, you don't have to do it now. You can apply to take a year's leave of absence from school and see how your new project goes.

If you are young, it's not unusual to wonder if you're on the right road. I took four years off between high school and university, and it wasn't a waste, because when I did go back, I knew university was what I wanted to do. I was committed in a way I hadn't been before, and I worked harder and had more success as a result.

Passion counts. Go ahead and chase your dream. Just keep your fall-back positions open.

Best of luck with it.

mccardey · Dec 5, 2011

It's not just about the fall-back-degree, though, is it? It's also about education for its own sake. A good education is a very good thing.

ohthatmomagain · Dec 5, 2011

I don't see why you can't do both at the same time. Not really in the self-pub (if it's going to cost you money that you don't have right now), but writing/querying while in college is very possible.

Susan Coffin · Dec 5, 2011

I suggest to finish your degree and also pursue your dream of writing.

NeuroFizz · Dec 5, 2011

I guess I'll be the bastard who addresses one possible limitation that no one else has touched. Self-pubbed books and web-posted stories are not the kind of writing credits that will impress agents and editors of royalty-paying publishers. Have you had positive evaluations of your writing from these kinds of publishing professionals? If yes, why did you go the self-pub route? If no, perhaps you could post some of your work in the SYW forum to get some solid feedback (there are many experienced writers who generously give the time there). If you are considering something as drastic as giving up your education, you might want more data on exactly where you are in your development as a writer.

CrastersBabies · Dec 5, 2011

I wish I had gotten my degrees earlier, when I was younger. If I had known then what I know now . . .

(sighs)

jennontheisland · Dec 5, 2011

<--In school.

Degree. If you want to keep writing right now, lighten your courseload.

But don't do a degree in something completely unemployable. Those are fun and mind expanding and all, but really not so good for paying back student loans. If you're going to make the financial and time investment, do it in something likely to net a return.

Chekurtab · Dec 5, 2011

It's not so much a dilemma in my mind. You can still write while in college.

Terie · Dec 5, 2011

Shadow_Ferret said:
Talent won't even get you in the door these days. It's not even quantifiable in the job market, not like diplomas and experience. I know because when the economy went south, I lost my tech writing job and could not find another because I don't have the diploma, despite job experience, despite "talent." I can't even get past the gate keepers because they discard my resume right off the bat as not meeting their full criteria. I might match in experience. In talent. But the next guy has a diploma. Guess who gets called in?

This right here. In an employer's market, which we look to have for a long time to come, the first cut when HR goes through resumes is for a degree.

In my first tech writing job (which I got after spending 7 years or so working my way up in the company from the mail room -- cliche but true), I was recognised within six months as being the best writer in the department (of 16), despite not having a degree of any kind or any previous experience. But the company failed at the beginning of a recession, and without a degree, I couldn't even get an interview to show off my portfolio. I had the talent and the portfolio to prove it, but without a degree, it didn't matter.

So when I finally got another good tech writing job (five years after getting laid off the first one), my top priority was to go back to school and finish my degree. I did the last two years' of work in two years plus one semester while working full time in a high-tech job in my late thirties. That is WAAAAAAAAAY harder to do than getting the degree in one's early twenties, believe me.

What you should be doing is majoring in a subject that will complement your writing goals. Not creative writing, and unless you want to teach English, not English, either. Something related to what you want to write about. Do you write fantasy? Major in anthropology, sociology, history. Do you write political thrillers? Major in political science. And so on. That gives you interesting stuff to study that will teach you how to research (a vital skill no matter what you want to write), and as someone upstream said, an education is just plain good for you.

Building a writing career takes time. Very few writers make enough money to live on right out the gate. Hell, I have five commercially published books under my belt and don't make anything like enough money to live on. Good thing I have a day job!

The Lonely One · Dec 5, 2011

<---In school and publishing at the same time.

Do what you want but don't give up a degree without a lot of thought and consideration.

Also, I'm certainly not scoffing your self-publishing route, but if you do decide to go the traditional publishing route (i.e. seeking representation), there technically shouldn't be anything about your production to spend your tuition money on.

You can do both, is what I'm saying.

Mr. Anonymous · Dec 5, 2011

I advise getting the degree.

First of all, in order to be a good writer, you need to be knowledgeable. Nobody can know everything, and you don't need to go to school to be knowledgeable, but school does make it easier for you to acquire knowledge.

Second of all, as others have mentioned, talent is often not enough. Most decent jobs want to see that credential. And with more and more people getting some sort of degree every year, be it an associates or a bachelors or a masters, you're going to be competing against a lot of people who have diplomas. In reality, you might be a million times better than they are. On paper, they might look like a safer, better bet.

mortimerjackson · Dec 5, 2011

Thanks for all the replies. It's definitely been enlightening. And since you were kind enough to voice your thoughts, I figure I'd respond to some of your comments.

This is pure bullshit. Sorry. But it's true. Because if you don't have that diploma, no one cares how freaking talented you are. Look at the economy now. It's a buyers market for businesses. They can pick and choose who they want and demand education and years of proven experience.

I have to agree with you to some extent. I think that if you're working for a large company/institution, college matters more than competence. But if you work for a smaller outfit with more independent control, then they're typically willing to peruse your accomplishments. Though they probably won't pay you as much.

Self-pubbed books and web-posted stories are not the kind of writing credits that will impress agents and editors of royalty-paying publishers. Have you had positive evaluations of your writing from these kinds of publishing professionals?

My point with self-publishing was to get as much content as I can out there as fast as possible for public scrutiny. If I have to query agents, magazines, etc, it's a process that takes quite a bit of time. And in the meanwhile, I have nothing to show for myself. The goal of course, is to expand from that as time goes on, going from self-publishing to eventually querying, and etc.

Also, I'm not entirely with you that self-pubbed books don't impress. It depends on how well you perform. Take, for instance, that I've recently queried a comic book start-up for a writer's position. And though I'm a little doubtful that I'll find work there (due mostly to artistic differences), it helped me quite a bit that I could tell them that I've been able to sell books on my own.

Also, I'm certainly not scoffing your self-publishing route, but if you do decide to go the traditional publishing route (i.e. seeking representation), there technically shouldn't be anything about your production to spend your tuition money on.

Yes... that's true... And now that you've mentioned it, I really do wonder if I should take this book of mine to a publisher. It's certainly good enough for it. Hmm... You know, I think I might just do that.

And for those of you asking what I'm majoring in, I'm 22, and I'm majoring in political science. Not the most career-sexy field, I know, but it was something I chose out of my simple interest in politics. Assuming I start doing things like interning for judges as opposed to writing, I imagine it won't be too hard for me to land some desk job pushing pencils all day. But damn it, I want to be where the action is...

Okay. Sorry. In all seriousness, I think you guys have me sold on sticking with school. It's just a shame that we live in a world that caters more to thousand dollar receipts than individual achievements.

EDIT:

First of all, in order to be a good writer, you need to be knowledgeable. Nobody can know everything, and you don't need to go to school to be knowledgeable, but school does make it easier for you to acquire knowledge.

I disagree with this. While school is certainly not a bad platform for learning, there is nothing that you can learn in a school that you can't learn on your own, or through other social exposures. Also, learning for learning's sake isn't worth thousands upon thousands of dollars. I think it's safe to say that we all do it because we want the promised land of a job.

Terie · Dec 5, 2011

mortimerjackson said:
It's just a shame that we live in a world that caters more to thousand dollar receipts than individual achievements.

Amen to this! It drives me NUTS (even now that I have the damn BA and a post-grad certificate, too) that the mere possession of a piece of paper trumps actual, provable talent. But that's the way of the business world, and like it or not, we have to play that game.

Good luck to you. I think studying poli-sci will serve you well, whether in the day-job arena, the writing arena, or (hopefully!) both.

mccardey · Dec 5, 2011

Terie said:
Amen to this! It drives me NUTS (even now that I have the damn BA and a post-grad certificate, too) that the mere possession of a piece of paper trumps actual, provable talent. .

But - that piece of paper signifies years of learning from people who know stuff. I think it's valuable for that alone... It's not just talent that's worthwhile - it's talent + knowledge in execution, surely. So many people have talent, after all. So few people can use it.

Wayne K · Dec 5, 2011

Stay in school

My 2 cents, but those are the 2 cents I worked hardest for.

Continue College, or Pursue a Dream?

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