Are love interests mandatory?

breaking_burgundy · Dec 1, 2011

I'm writing what I expect to be a trilogy of YA fantasy novels. In the first book, neither of the main characters has a serious love interest, and there is little to no hinting that one of the other characters will become a love interest.

I'm currently looking through all of the YA books I read this year, and not a single one is without some form of romance, and it seems that every time I hear about a new book, part of the description goes: "And then she meets..."

Do you know of any recently published YA books, particularly in the fantasy genre, that don't have romance? Or is this something that will never sell?

Lovely Decadence · Dec 1, 2011

I can't give you any reference books, but I can give you my opinion on the matter. Despite the fact that is fairly common and in most cases expected that there will be a designated love interest in YA, it is by no means required nor should it hurt your chances of ever selling your story. If it's good, it's good love interests be damned.

missesdash · Dec 1, 2011

I think it's a hard sell, at least. Romance ups the escapism appeal. Not only will you get lost in this world that doesn't exist: you'll have beautiful so-and-so to lust after.

maybegenius · Dec 1, 2011

I'm trying to think of a recent series. The first thing that came to mind was THE IMMORTALS series by Tamora Pierce, but it's at least ten years old. That one didn't have a love interest until the last book of the four-book series.

I'll be honest: when I was a teen, I wanted to read about sex and kissing. Lots of sex and kissing. I think that's a common theme among teens. However, there absolutely doesn't need to be sex and kissing to make a good book. Philip Pullman's HIS DARK MATERIALS is generally considered YA in the US, and the love subplot wasn't introduced until the last book. It was still an incredibly compelling fantasy read. But again, ten years old. Ish.

Write your book the way it needs to be written. If you get to the publishing stage with it, they'll either like what you've done with it or they'll ask you to add the romantic subplot. And even then, you can always say no.

Becca C. · Dec 1, 2011

I agree with missesdash, as I so often do

Like it or not, our audience loves romance. I can't really think of a recent YA novel that doesn't have a love interest or some degree of romance... I haven't read it yet, but I've heard Incarceron by Catherine Fisher doesn't. Like Mandarin by our own Kirsten Hubbard does or doesn't, depending on how you see the main relationship... I don't know. It's very, very nearly a requirement. You have to find a way to hook the teenage reader without the romance, which may be more difficult.

jmlee · Dec 1, 2011

I agree that it is prevalent and recommended (?), but I also think the audience matters. None of my novels are "And then s/he met..." and although there are relationships, the ROMANCES tend take the very back seat. (&point - people still claim to enjoy them)

I think maybe there could be a case made that romance must be an element for the reader (ie what missesdash said), not necessarily between characters - but then you get into stuff beyond what I think you're asking.

VictoriaWrites · Dec 1, 2011

Becca C. said:
I agree with missesdash, as I so often do

Like it or not, our audience loves romance. I can't really think of a recent YA novel that doesn't have a love interest or some degree of romance... I haven't read it yet, but I've heard Incarceron by Catherine Fisher doesn't...

Incarceron doesn't have romance. It has a very nicely done arranged marriage plot, though. I don't remember the sequel, Sapphique, having romance either, but in that the two main characters were arranged to be married and at least part of the plot was about them trying to get along.

Most YA (that I've read) does have romance of some sort. Even if there's not an actual love interest, there's an unrequited crush or something.

I'm no expert on the industry, so I have no idea what agents and publishers will or will not buy.

Lovely Decadence · Dec 1, 2011

I guess I'm the odd-ball on this scenario though, but I guess that's just my nature to be contrary. If someone tells me that something can't be done, I always go out of my way to prove them wrong. Romance in YA is common because the target audience tends to really love that subplot/main plot/theme, no question. I just don't see it as a deal breaker though. If you make a really awesome story that doesn't include a love interest, though there might be an agent who might suggest adding one in, I don't think many will see it as a deal breaker if there's a lot the story is doing right. Ultimately it's your decision on what you want to do, but I just don't think shoe horning a romance in because it's expected is advisable if it doesn't feel right to do so.

jmlee · Dec 1, 2011

chocowrites said:
YA= protag <19 yrs + coming of age + romance subplot.

I think this risks making light of the question and oversimplifying the genre. We could even simplify this/make it more vague and just say

YA = fiction teens will read

but that still doesn't really fit, since actually I think the definition is

YA = what sells as YA

Does romance sell? Yes it does. But is it mandatory? I don't think the the equation is perfect.

missesdash · Dec 1, 2011

jmlee said:
I think this risks making light of the question and oversimplifying the genre. We could even simplify this/make it more vague and just say

YA = fiction teens will read

but that still doesn't really fit, since actually I think the definition is

YA = what sells as YA

Therein lies the rub. Too often writers ignore the difference between the two. Will teens read stories without romance? Of course. Will major houses buy it? Not nearly as likely. That's a fact.

We aren't ever telling someone that something "can't be done" when we advise against it. We just assume this person wants to eventually sell their book to one of the big six and so we try to assess certain risks accordingly.

And that's all it is, a risk. In the end you do what you want.

jmlee · Dec 1, 2011

missesdash said:
Therein lies the rub. Too often writers ignore the difference between the two. Will teens read stories without romance? Of course. Will major houses buy it? Not nearly as likely. That's a fact.

We aren't ever telling someone that something "can't be done" when we advise against it. We just assume this person wants to eventually sell their book to one of the big six and so we try to assess certain risks accordingly.

And that's all it is, a risk. In the end you do what you want.

Word.

And I started listing off all the survival YA with absolutely no romance I ate up when I was actually a teen and realized teens these days probably have never heard of them. So maybe I'm just old and a dude.

Radhika · Dec 1, 2011

jmlee said:
I agree that it is prevalent and recommended (?), but I also think the audience matters. None of my novels are "And then s/he met..." and although there are relationships, the ROMANCES tend take the very back seat. (&point - people still claim to enjoy them)

I think maybe there could be a case made that romance must be an element for the reader (ie what missesdash said), not necessarily between characters - but then you get into stuff beyond what I think you're asking.

I agree with this. I definitely don't think you need to have romance be the MAIN element of the story, but as a teen reader and writer, I tend to generalize a romantic interest between characters before we even get to know their relationship, because that's how I see things as a regular teenager. Especially in high school now, "I caught that flirt," and "Those two would make a great couple," run through my head quite often.

You don't have to make it happen, but I will say it may disappoint the reader in the end. You could make it a minimal part of the story - which would appeal to more people, though it is your book - it's your choice.
If the norm doesn't appeal to you, go Indie if publishers will not even look at your book without a romantic aspect.

EndlessDestiny · Dec 3, 2011

Romance is definitely a major thing in current YA. Like the OP, I'm working on a trilogy of books and the first book doesn't have any romance. It sets it up, with the characters meeting each other and getting to know one another, but I don't think it'll be obvious to readers what the pairings will be. And there are zero love triangles.

missesdash · Dec 3, 2011

I don't think I could write without romance unless I made a serious effort. My characters are all older teenagers and they're naturally drawn to the opposite (or the same) sex. It doesn't take much effort on my part they're characterized thoroughly enough.

EndlessDestiny · Dec 3, 2011

I'm posing another question. Are heterosexual love interests mandatory for a successful novel.

Now, I know that there are some YA lgbt novels that have done well, but I have yet to see any of them take off like other YA books. Add to that that most YA lgbt books are about coming out, than say, grand adventure or something to that effect. Only three titles come to mind: Ash and Huntress by Malinda Lo, and Hero.

VictoriaWrites · Dec 3, 2011

Was thinking about this some more, and wanted to add that YA readers are used to seeing romantic subplots. A little bit of chemistry between characters, a few hints that characters might have feelings for each other is enough for the audience to read the lines. If the romance isn't the center of the story, a lot of readers might like a story that hints at a romance better.

TheOneTrueBen · Dec 3, 2011

Mandatory? No.

But do teens tend to fall in love? Yeah...most of them do. Sometimes with alarming frequency, but for thankfully brief periods.

Does the romance sub-plot appeal to a lot of teens? Oooooh, yeah. The Twilight books are a HUGE example of that.

Is it necessary to make a book successful? Harry Potter had one of the most minimalized romantic sub-plots in the first books I've ever seen. And he didn't get the girl he liked at first (which I thought was a great thing, since life is like that

)

But the most important thing for the writer to ask themselves, in my own humble opinion, is "Is it part of MY story?" If it isn't, no big deal. If it is, then it is.

missesdash · Dec 3, 2011

EndlessDestiny said:
I'm posing another question. Are heterosexual love interests mandatory for a successful novel.

Now, I know that there are some YA lgbt novels that have done well, but I have yet to see any of them take off like other YA books. Add to that that most YA lgbt books are about coming out, than say, grand adventure or something to that effect. Only three titles come to mind: Ash and Huntress by Malinda Lo, and Hero.

Me and my agent have talked about this a lot while I revise. I have a romance between two girls in my story, but it's a dark spec-fic thriller. There is a little conflict in that one of them isn't that comfortable being viewed as bisexual, but it's not even a subplot.

Anyway, she did say one of our "challenges" in framing this was going to be getting "Team Edward/Team Jacob" to root for a lesbian couple. I'm pretty optimistic, to be honest. This is a generation who roots for gay marriage and saw the end of DADT. I think last year was the first time (in the US) where over half of the people polled were in support of gay marriage.

I don't think a YA romance needs to be limited to heterosexual in order to have mass appeal.

jmlee · Dec 3, 2011

missesdash said:
Me and my agent have talked about this a lot while I revise. I have a romance between two girls in my story, but it's a dark spec-fic thriller. There is a little conflict in that one of them isn't that comfortable being viewed as bisexual, but it's not even a subplot.

Anyway, she did say one of our "challenges" in framing this was going to be getting "Team Edward/Team Jacob" to root for a lesbian couple. I'm pretty optimistic, to be honest. This is a generation who roots for gay marriage and saw the end of DADT. I think last year was the first time (in the US) where over half of the people polled were in support of gay marriage.

I don't think a YA romance needs to be limited to heterosexual in order to have mass appeal.

Yes, yes, and yes.

To add to your example, I have a large variety of possible romantic pairings in my adventure-fantasy-parody, and the most popular is a male/male semi-cannon pairing (and my readership is mostly teen girls).

I think there are two appeals at play here: whether or not the reader is rooting for your couple or lusting after the main romantic lead. I think both are effective; in the former, the reader cares about the interests of the MC (maybe even if they aren't attracted to the love interest) and in the second, I think sometimes the MC doesn't even matter so long as the love interest is appealing... and angsty/broody/smoking hot.

TheOneTrueBen · Dec 3, 2011

EndlessDestiny said:
I'm posing another question. Are heterosexual love interests mandatory for a successful novel.

Now, I know that there are some YA lgbt novels that have done well, but I have yet to see any of them take off like other YA books. Add to that that most YA lgbt books are about coming out, than say, grand adventure or something to that effect. Only three titles come to mind: Ash and Huntress by Malinda Lo, and Hero.

An interesting question. Are there authors out there who can write an adventure while sub-plotting in a romantic relationship between characters of the same gender? And will the target audience want the adventure to be the main plot, and the romance, the subplot? (There are a lot of adventure stories out there, but LGBT romances are thinner on the ground). We may be in the transition period where we're still getting used to the idea of LGBT relationships in general. Once we get to the point where that isn't so taboo any more, we'll probably start seeing more of an equal mix in romantic sub-plots in fiction.

One thing I'd like to see is same-sex relationships between characters along side heterosexual pairings, being a normal thing. The hard part about writing those, of course, is the part about writing from a sexual orientation that may not be the author's.

strandedhero · Dec 3, 2011

I actually think it would be GREAT to see more YA novels without love interests, but then I try to think of what they could be about, and well, romance seems to be a big thing when you are a teen so I guess it makes sense. Even if it's not the focus, it's usually still there in some sense.

missesdash · Dec 3, 2011

Another thing: this definitely isn't a YA issue. The same goes for adult books, movies, even popular music. We're social creatures. We like romance, bad romance, good romance, unhealthy romances. We like to see people interact in a manner that goes beyond conventional friendships.

KTC · Dec 3, 2011

I can't speak for fantasy...but I never heard of romance/love interest being mandatory in a specific market. My novel is devoid of a love interest...and it has surpassed my expectations in both reviews and sales. Some stories just DO NOT have a love interest or romance slant. I say a story has in it what is needed to tell that story.

jmlee · Dec 3, 2011

missesdash said:
Another thing: this definitely isn't a YA issue. The same goes for adult books, movies, even popular music. We're social creatures. We like romance, bad romance, good romance, unhealthy romances. We like to see people interact in a matter beyond conventional friendships.

And how.

But I think there's a lot between romance and conventional friendship, and I would read all about it and watch all the movies.

My favorite novel is DEMIAN. The entire book is about the complicated relationship between two boys/young men. Some argue it's just a straight up gay romance. Some argue it's different. I kind of go both ways (...). But is it a romance? No, I don't think so. Is it emotionally fortifying to read? Definitely. Human social nature in action? Oh yes.

CATCHER IN THE RYE. Holden Caulfield loves Sally. Kinda. Is that a romance? No. Is it a romantic sub-plot? No, I don't think so. There's also the hooker. Romance? No. Does Holden WANT romance? Yes. Does he get it? No. Does this count as romance in YA? I don't know.

ENDER'S GAME. No romance. For me, completely satisfying. Maybe not for other people. Will they add a romance subplot to the movie? I guess we'll see.

But am I the target market for YA books?

Haha. No.

Toothpaste · Dec 4, 2011

strandedhero said:
I actually think it would be GREAT to see more YA novels without love interests, but then I try to think of what they could be about

That's the problem right there. People I think are starting to equate YA with Romance novels. There are plenty of things to write about other than romance. I write adventures that involve life and death and a great deal of creative problem solving. My YA was originally going to have nothing at all to do with romance, until I had enough people convince me that if I truly wanted to appeal to a wide YA audience, I'd need some. But it is still a subplot, totally secondary to the plot. And while I quite like my romances (I have two in the book), and they have become necessary to the story, it wouldn't take much to re-jig the book to get rid of them altogether.

Are love interests mandatory?

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