healthy length for a standard historical novel.
- Thread starter DivaNicoletta
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Yeah, try to sell it before you write it. Unless you love it so much you just have to write it no matter what. I sure wouldn't write more than a few sample chapters for show. Send it to a historical magazine and ask them if they want to buy an excerpt.
Pages don't matter. As long as it's a page turner.
I wrote a great one about the creation of the CIA and some of their programs like MK-Ultra, Northwoods, Majestic 12, The Gulf of Tonkin incident and so on.
Every editor said it was too controversial. I had some nasty stuff happening in there. I thought it was a masterpiece. Now it sits on my bookshelf with about fifty other novels and screenplays. [ All masterpieces by the way.]
Genius is never recognized until you're dead. Then the grandkids get rich.
Pages don't matter. As long as it's a page turner.
I wrote a great one about the creation of the CIA and some of their programs like MK-Ultra, Northwoods, Majestic 12, The Gulf of Tonkin incident and so on.
Every editor said it was too controversial. I had some nasty stuff happening in there. I thought it was a masterpiece. Now it sits on my bookshelf with about fifty other novels and screenplays. [ All masterpieces by the way.]
Genius is never recognized until you're dead. Then the grandkids get rich.
In my view, a healthy length is in the order of 100,000-150,000 words. Sounds like you're there. Good luck with your project. Mine is Heart & Iron, ISBN 1-4137-5397-3--it was an experience because as I went through the research, some of it brought tears to me yes and other parts just made me angry--but I enjoyed it.
At the signings, my particular thesis doesn't seem to grab--but I wouldn't change the product. Many folks seemed anxious about the faith, courage and love of country themes. On the other hand there have been a number of buyers who enjoyed the reflections of Paris Island, the south Pacific battle scenes and the treatment of 9-11.
At the signings, my particular thesis doesn't seem to grab--but I wouldn't change the product. Many folks seemed anxious about the faith, courage and love of country themes. On the other hand there have been a number of buyers who enjoyed the reflections of Paris Island, the south Pacific battle scenes and the treatment of 9-11.
Elijah--I truly hope your work is picked up by a big house. Your effort sounds interesting--I'd buy it--and that's just one sampling.
I am beginning to think breaking out is the purview of a small, incestuous club, members only, and the writers who can earn a living writing all reside in New York or Los Angeles--or know someone who is part of the social set in those cities. Ha ha
But, alas, I'll keep submitting--and I hope you do too. Your genius must be shared! (No joke).
I am beginning to think breaking out is the purview of a small, incestuous club, members only, and the writers who can earn a living writing all reside in New York or Los Angeles--or know someone who is part of the social set in those cities. Ha ha
But, alas, I'll keep submitting--and I hope you do too. Your genius must be shared! (No joke).
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estimating length
Diva, which formula are you using to estimate the number of pages? You know, right, that when you're submitting a manuscript you provide the number of words (estimated by the number of ms pages, strangely)?
The number of pages in your manuscript and the number of pages in the book when published may not have much to do with each other at all, because of the choices made in layout, font and font size, and so on.
Andrew, as a fellow lover of research (sometimes more than the writing part!) sorry to see you were snagged by PublishAmerica. Best of luck with your next book.
-Barbara
Diva, which formula are you using to estimate the number of pages? You know, right, that when you're submitting a manuscript you provide the number of words (estimated by the number of ms pages, strangely)?
The number of pages in your manuscript and the number of pages in the book when published may not have much to do with each other at all, because of the choices made in layout, font and font size, and so on.
Andrew, as a fellow lover of research (sometimes more than the writing part!) sorry to see you were snagged by PublishAmerica. Best of luck with your next book.
-Barbara
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Once you've been published, you may be able to sell an unwritten or partially written novel, but first novelists need to have a complete, polished manuscript.Elijah Phoenix said:
- Victoria
Number of Pages isn't very useful
Maybe this can help you out. It's what I was told by my agent and editor. First, talking specifically about historical fiction. For a first time author, they're not going to do a book more than 175,000 words (using Microsoft Word's count - and please don't tell me that it's not accurate; publishers know how to convert it into whatever system they're using).
Historical fiction seems to run in the range of 150,000 to 175,000 words, give or take. Readers of historical fiction tend to prefer larger books, and they're not going to pay for anything much smaller, especially if they don't know the author.
That said, the page length is going to vary based on the physical size of the book. Paperback versus hardcover versus pocketsized, etc. I'm going to stay with hardcover, since that's what I've been involved in.
The reasoning for that length is pretty boring. It involves shelf space, how many books can be packed into a carton for shipping, and other grubby financial considerations. So a larger book for a first time author is a lot of risk for a publisher to take, and they're not in the big-risk business. Also, they have to charge more, which is more risk, since the public doesn't know the author, so why should they pay $24.95 for a new hardcover? Or $27.95, etc.
My historical went to the publisher at 184,000 words, and with her changes and suggestions, actually increased to 193,000. (They wanted more meat in some characters for the hoped-for movie).
So I think if you're submitting, try to write the BEST novel you can, and hope that it finishes in the 150,000 to 175,000 range. That won't bother anyone, either an agent or editor. Once they get it, they'll TELL YOU what to add or cut, and you pretty much better listen to what they say.
Keep writing,
eskkar
Maybe this can help you out. It's what I was told by my agent and editor. First, talking specifically about historical fiction. For a first time author, they're not going to do a book more than 175,000 words (using Microsoft Word's count - and please don't tell me that it's not accurate; publishers know how to convert it into whatever system they're using).
Historical fiction seems to run in the range of 150,000 to 175,000 words, give or take. Readers of historical fiction tend to prefer larger books, and they're not going to pay for anything much smaller, especially if they don't know the author.
That said, the page length is going to vary based on the physical size of the book. Paperback versus hardcover versus pocketsized, etc. I'm going to stay with hardcover, since that's what I've been involved in.
The reasoning for that length is pretty boring. It involves shelf space, how many books can be packed into a carton for shipping, and other grubby financial considerations. So a larger book for a first time author is a lot of risk for a publisher to take, and they're not in the big-risk business. Also, they have to charge more, which is more risk, since the public doesn't know the author, so why should they pay $24.95 for a new hardcover? Or $27.95, etc.
My historical went to the publisher at 184,000 words, and with her changes and suggestions, actually increased to 193,000. (They wanted more meat in some characters for the hoped-for movie).
So I think if you're submitting, try to write the BEST novel you can, and hope that it finishes in the 150,000 to 175,000 range. That won't bother anyone, either an agent or editor. Once they get it, they'll TELL YOU what to add or cut, and you pretty much better listen to what they say.
Keep writing,
eskkar
DivaNicoletta said:I am planning for mine to be about 300-350 pages. Any thoughts?
Roughly 150,000 words is a decent length to aim at, but with historical novels, you aren't usually over the line until you get up around 200K. And finish it before you try to sell it. There's no point in a new writer trying to sell anything less than a finished, polished novel.
Once youo sell a novel, and prove that the readng public will buy it, you can sell the next novel based on a query/synopsis, or sample chapters at most. But until you do this, no one on earth even knows whether or not you can write a complete novel at all, let alone one the reading public will buy.
New York
You know, it's funny. With two exceptions, none of the bestselling writers I've ever known lived in New York or Los Angeles, and none of them knew anyone in publishing circles.
Andrew said:
You know, it's funny. With two exceptions, none of the bestselling writers I've ever known lived in New York or Los Angeles, and none of them knew anyone in publishing circles.
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