Third Person Present: Is it considered "gimmicky"?

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huu

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I'm just curious.

I don't normally see TPP done in novels but recently I've been wanting to experiment a little more outside of what I normally write (Third Person Limited Past).

What do you guys think? Gimmicky or not?
 

amyashley

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I'm seeing present more often these days. I think if it feels comfortable for you and for the book you're writing, then go for it.

You'll find naysayers regardless of what POV you choose, and in this VERY THREAD there will be those who feel the need to profess their love for specific POV's over others–raving about the glories and flaws and blah blah blah.

No one POV is perfect. This is why there are several.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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S. J. Parris's historical thrillers use it. So if Doubleday (in the US; don't know who her UK publisher is) doesn't find it "gimmicky" for the sleuthing of 16th century philosopher and scientist Giordano Bruno to be told in the third person present tense, my guess is that its use in more modern settings should be equally unproblematic.
 

Sage

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To me, third present feels amateurish. Not that writing it is amateurish, just that when I read it, it makes the writing feel younger to me.

First present took me a while to get used to, but since it is all over YA, I did eventually get used to it, and now write in it about half the time.
 

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My first two novels were third person present, and they sold fine (for a niche market) but some reviewers (mostly the casual Goodreads type) did complain about the tense.

That's in Romance. I think YA is generally a lot more forgiving of non-traditional narration. I'm not sure about other genres.
 

Flicka

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I once wrote a novel with double story lines. The one set in the past just turned out to be third person present tense. It's not something I would normally write or would have guessed I could even read, but somehow I think it flowed perfectly for that character and it really worked for the sort of semi-dreamlike feel I wanted for those pieces. I don't think anyone I showed it to really noticed. I've read some things that I've likewise didn't notice were TPP until later. It did not feel gimmicky.

I'd say that gimmicky is when it's done for the sake of doing it rather than because it fits the story, but then all's well that's done well...
 

lorna_w

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I also don't like it, would never buy a book with it, don't even check them out from the library. It feels more to me like affectation than gimmick, but that's probably nitpicking. Others like it a lot.
 

Al Stevens

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"Homicide, A Year on the Killing Streets," by David Simon uses 3rd, present.

The majority of Dickens's "Bleak House" is 3rd, present. You want to call Dickens gimmicky? He probably doesn't mind.
 

Jake Barnes

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Seems a little self defeating. The point of present tense is immediacy. If you're going for that, first person makes more sense.
 

MAP

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It wouldn't stop me from reading, but I prefer past.
 

Deirdre

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I'm not as fond of third present as I am of first present or second present, but in the right circumstances, it works. That's all that's important, really.

No POV will work well for every reader, though.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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The majority of Dickens's "Bleak House" is 3rd, present.

The courtroom parts are in 3rd person present, but the majority of the book is in 1st person past, told by Esther Summerson. (The final chapter, a summing-up of what happened after the conclusion of the story arc proper, is told by Esther in 1st person present.)
 

Al Stevens

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The courtroom parts are in 3rd person present, but the majority of the book is in 1st person past, told by Esther Summerson. (The final chapter, a summing-up of what happened after the conclusion of the story arc proper, is told by Esther in 1st person present.)

Just leafed through the Guttenberg edition. I'm not going to do a page count, but 3rd person, present seems to prevail. Dickens intersperses those chapters with the Summerson first person, past narrative ones. In any event, it is a substantial portion of the book, sufficient to validate the idiom as a legitimate literary device.

I have read that Dickens was criticized for this approach.
 

n3onkn1ght

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Yes.

Present tense feels less like a story being told, and more like an endless stream of consciousness.

"The photograph is in my hand. The photograph is falling."
 

Emptyeye

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I'll grant that I'm not as well-read as I probably should be for an aspiring writer.

That said, it was jarring the first time (Earlier this year) I read a novel with this approach, simply because I don't think I had ever seen it before.

Gimmicky, maybe not, and it does sound like it's becoming more common, but I'd still be careful.
 

blacbird

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Third-present is uncommon, and tends to read gimmicky to me. Present tense is more commonly used with first-person POV, I think, and it's a little easier to understand why the writer uses it. Which brings up the question you'd need to answer if you wanted to use it: For what purpose?

caw
 

eyeblink

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Just leafed through the Guttenberg edition. I'm not going to do a page count, but 3rd person, present seems to prevail. Dickens intersperses those chapters with the Summerson first person, past narrative ones. In any event, it is a substantial portion of the book, sufficient to validate the idiom as a legitimate literary device.

I have read that Dickens was criticized for this approach.

It's been a long time since I read Bleak House (having read it saved my arse during an English finals exam at University) but from what I remember it's about half and half third present omni (with a narrator) and first past from Esther's POV. (Most of Esther's chapters are titled "Esther's Narrative" IIRC.)

Other novels in third present include Joyce Cary's Mister Johnson from 1939 and John Updike's Rabbit, Run in 1960, plus its sequels. Updike said that he was aware when he wrote the novel that third present was not a common technique but he used it as he visualised the novel as a film - credits playing over the opening sequence, this scene with a tracking shot etc. (Rabbit, Run was filmed in 1970, apparently none too successfully, and the film is little seen nowadays.)

Oh, and I forgot Judith Guest's Ordinary People, published in 1976 and filmed in 1980.

eyeblink, an occasional user of third present
 

Chronos

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I've only seen a handful of novels do this well and at first it is jarring, well to me anyway. Bleak House is number 3 in my top 20 favourite novels though so it can be done in a good way. Rabbit, Run should get a remake that book was awesome! Like others have said if it fits your story then run with it and who cares what others who don't like it think. If it doesn't work you can always re-write it. There's no harm in experimenting with this and seeing how far you can take it and how it goes. ^_^
 

Prisoner24601

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Third-present is uncommon, and tends to read gimmicky to me. Present tense is more commonly used with first-person POV, I think, and it's a little easier to understand why the writer uses it. Which brings up the question you'd need to answer if you wanted to use it: For what purpose?

caw

Because you want to create a sense of immediacy to the action without being stuck in first person. I personally find most first person stories claustrophobic and instead of identifying with the main character, they start getting on my nerves.

It's just going to depend on the reader though and what their tastes are. It's also probably going to depend on the skill of the person writing the story. First person present would probably annoy the hell out of me, but in the hands of someone who really knows what they're doing, I might change my mind. Third person present I tend to like more and more now that I've started playing with it a bit. But it works better for me in shorts. I think if I had to read a whole novel of it, it might drive me bonkers.
 

LJD

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I don't know if I'd say gimmicky, but because it's an unusual choice, if often stands out to the reader. First person present is more common.

Only book I can think of off the top of my head: Rabbit, Run.
 

FabricatedParadise

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To me, third present feels amateurish. Not that writing it is amateurish, just that when I read it, it makes the writing feel younger to me.

First present took me a while to get used to, but since it is all over YA, I did eventually get used to it, and now write in it about half the time.

I'm the opposite. :). I've always felt first person to be on the ameteur side, and so limiting. I like being able to shift to other characters' pov and it's always bothered my to read books written in 1st that shift like that. I don't know why.

In answer to the thread question: I just recently (3 date ago) picked up Wake by Lisa Mcmann in the YA section at BN and bought it not realizing it was 3rd person present. When I got home and started reading it, I did kind of pause for a moment and go ... "Do I really want to read this?" but I pressed on and soon realized that she paints such a give picture I wasn't even noticing what tense it was written in, and it kind of works for her story. Great book, btw.

What I'm saying is if you do it right and it works for your story, go for it!
But take this with a grain of salt, because after readig this thread I suspect I might be a POV snob lol.

Eden
 

C.G.Ayling

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I might be chastised for this, and if so - so be it. But the truth is that this thread is the reason I came to this board in the first place.

Within my writing I extensively make use of a variant of Third Person Present. I do this not because it is gimmicky or different but because it is my natural writing style. I want to reveal to the reader a fundamental truth I have learnt over the too many years I have polluted this world with my presence.

That truth is this:- There are two sides to every story.

Actually that “truth” is itself a lie – there are many sides to any story. Back to the thread track. I am striving to immerse the reader in a tale, but one of my nefarious objectives is to hide my philosophy of life within an entertaining story. I really, really want the reader to feel that they “understand” the motivations of the characters in the story as they do things that might be objectionable. To do this I need to show them the world through multiple characters eyes and the most natural way for me to do this is Third Person Present.

I tried doing the “he thought”, “she thought” thing. It ruins the flow of the story and makes it look and feel very bumpy and clumsy. What I settled on was an almost constant use of Third Person Present. Instead of telling the reader what the character was thinking I strive to place them in the mind of the character and show them what they are thinking and feeling. It is quite difficult to switch viewpoints and show the same scene as perceived from different perspectives without explicitly informing the reader they are now “looking through someone else’s eyes”.

To overcome this I gradually ease the reader into this understanding by separating the story into multiple threads, each perceived from the viewpoint of a specific character. As the threads begin to merge the reader, hopefully, learns to switch between characters without awareness they are even doing so.

If I am successful the final outcome is that the reader finds themselves immersed in an utterly foreign world inhabited by people whose thought processes and motivations differ dramatically not only from the readers, but from other characters within the book.

Using Third Person Present allows me to have the reader accept behavior that would normally raise their eyebrows. Because they “know” why the character acts that way. They have been living in every characters mind, seeing the world from their eyes and from the eyes of the narrator who, in reality, is them – they understand.

Is this gimmicky? I don’t think so.
 

Lady Ice

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Instead of telling the reader what the character was thinking I strive to place them in the mind of the character and show them what they are thinking and feeling.

All writers strive to show the reader what the character is thinking and feeling. Although it may be written in past, the reader will still feel as if it is happening in front of them. It's like watching a movie. We know it has already 'happened'. The actors have acted the parts before, the editors have made their edits...but we get caught up in the action and emotions.

I'm not sure what any of your points has to do with the merit/non-merit of Third Person Present, so maybe you could clarify them?
 
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