Article on why self-publishing isn't "publishing"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
197
Reaction score
13
The whole "self-publishing vs. trade publishing" debate is as polarized and as acrimonious as are debates about religion. Unlike religious debates, however, this one isn't pointless.

In a nutshell, the article that I am linking to below that I came across last week says that you can't really call yourself a "publisher" unless and until you have taken responsibility for someone else's work. In the strictest sense that the word is defined, this does not matter, but I agree with the point that he made.

A publishing company is a business, and my favorite term that describes what a business does is "going concern," with an emphasis on the word "concern." (Never mind that in accounting this means that the business is thriving and not under threat of being closed down. I go by John Commons's use of it to mean any organized collective action.) A business survives and thrives based not only on market conditions but on the decisions and the day-to-day actions of people who care about the business and want it to succeed. They don't take a single flat dime home unless they can meet their expenses, especially payroll. Every decision that they make is based on that, including what they publish and in what specific condition or form it will be published. The corollary is that if a book gets published, it has met whatever criteria a publisher has when deciding whether or not that book is able to drive the business. The publisher's name and logo on the cover symbolizes the publisher's willingness to risk the viability of the business, in whole or in part, on that title.

A self-publishing author has none of these concerns. Such a person is interested in being published, and does so without taking the kinds of risks that a trade publisher takes. To a self-publisher, the books is going to be published no matter what, whether it meets market standards or not. (Please don't inundate this thread with "look at Twilight!" or other "but most of what gets published these days is crap!" posts; been there, done that, have the t-shirt, and I'm sick of the whining. Publishing is a business; live with it.) A case in point is that very few self-publishing authors are willing to spend a lot of money on their own work; they go for e-books, print-on-demand, and other options that entail little or no financial risk. Indeed, self-publishing flourishes today because of relatively new technologies that make it a low-risk endeavor. Few self-publishing authors are going to pay two or more professional editors to work on their manuscripts and fewer still would make sweeping, extensive, or even fundamental changes to them if the editors point out flaws in them; they're paying for it, they want it published, and that's that. (Again, please don't bore me to death with tales about outliers and others who are exceptions to this rule. They are as relevant to this discussion as are those who survive gunshot wounds to the head are to discussions about public safety.)

Trade publishers operate as any other business because they have no choice but to do so. Self-publishers don't. Trade publishers have the track record of everything else that they have published before as a guarantee to the consumers that everything that they are publishing now will be just as good, if not better. Self-publishers leave the onus of determining quality on the consumers, and only those consumers who actively seek out self-published books to read.

Take a look at the article, and then do a little thought experiment: ask yourself how much you are willing to do, how much time you are willing to take, and how much money you are willing to spend on your own book if you are going to self-publish it; then do the same thing for another book, that is written by someone who is not your friend. If there is any gap at all between those figures or if you make any equivocation or qualification at all to your answer, then you are basically proving every point that I made above and every point that the author of the article linked to below made, too.

http://publishingperspectives.com/2...lishingPerspectives+(Publishing+Perspectives)
 

pdblake

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
2,799
Reaction score
12,123
Location
East Yorks, England
Website
dave-blake.uk
Smashwords and Kindle requires you to put a name in the 'Publisher' field. Therefore you are the publisher, whatever definition you put on the word.

You wrote it, proofed it, edited/had it edited, created or commisioned a cover, formatted it in at least two different ways, promoted it, advertised it, got people to review it. Crikey, you're more than just the publisher, you're all his employees too:)

As for not taking risks, some self publishers spend a fortune on editors and cover designers. They have to make that money back.

Self-publishers leave the onus of determining quality on the consumers, and only those consumers who actively seek out self-published books to read.

So did the trade publisher with their first book.
 
Last edited:

efkelley

ow
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,493
Reaction score
86
Location
Atlanta, GA
Publishing, according to ye olde dictionary is:

1 - to issue (printed or otherwise reproduced textual or graphic material, computer software, etc.) for sale or distribution to the public.

So, technically, the guy that writes THE END and immediately hits UPLOAD is a publisher. Now, will that guy be at all successful? No, probably not.
 

Al Stevens

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,537
Reaction score
217
There's altogether too much undie-bunching about what others call themselves and what they do and do not deserve to call themselves. A writer, published or not, self or not, typically does not introduce him/herself at a social gathering by saying "I'm a publisher." Think about it.

Must have been a slow day for the blog.
 

valeriec80

Got the hang of it, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
388
Reaction score
33
I'm with Al. Arguing semantics gets old.

Are we seriously going to now decide that not only can we not call ourselves indies or independent, but now we can't be self-publishers either?

And publisher is an honorific? What?

Look, I can't speak for every self-published author in the universe, but I do think that some people are misinterpreting the attitude of the many based on the loud proclamations of the few. I don't personally think I'm great, special, or wonderful for having self-published. I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't evangelize it. I'm just a writer. And when my books sell well, I enjoy the money. And when they don't sell well, I wonder what I'm doing wrong. The method I chose to reach my readers is just a method I chose because it was the option I considered best for myself at the time. I hope to have a long, long career during which I can use lots of other methods as well.

I think the time has come for us all to stop slinging mud at the "other side" and start focusing on our commonalities.

Of course, given the speed of the internets, I imagine "Self-publishers aren't good enough" arguments will get old fast. After all, if I hear another "Trade publishing is dead. Join the revolution and become a big star overnight" argument, I may puke. Perhaps the whole subject will make everyone sick to their stomachs soon. :)
 

Terie

Writer is as Writer does
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
954
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
www.teriegarrison.com
Oh, please. The word has a dictionary definition. I can't help but wonder about people who take common terms and apply definitions to them so as to exclude people who are participating in the activity.

I do find it annoying when self-publishers try to hide the fact that their work is self-published by saying it was put out by XX Publishing and conveniently failing to mention -- and, worse, sometimes even denying -- that they ARE XX Publishing.

But that doesn't mean they aren't publishing. Of course they're publishing. WTF other word should be used?
 
Last edited:

tim290280

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
245
Reaction score
6
Location
Western Australia
Website
thetysonadams.blogspot.com
yawn-1.png
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
197
Reaction score
13
As for not taking risks, some self publishers spend a fortune on editors and cover designers. They have to make that money back.

(Again, please don't bore me to death with tales about outliers and others who are exceptions to this rule. They are as relevant to this discussion as are those who survive gunshot wounds to the head are to discussions about public safety.)

I'm not talking about the one in a million SP writers out there who actually treat their creations as if they are serious business ventures because they are so insignificant in numbers as to be utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Publishing is a business venture. Self-publishing is a consumer endeavor. They ought not be equated.

A writer, published or not, self or not, typically does not introduce him/herself at a social gathering by saying "I'm a publisher." Think about it.

They should not introduce their book as having been "published" either. That was the point of that blog post.

But that doesn't mean they aren't publishing. Of course they're publishing. WTF other word should be used?

That's a good point. There might be a need for a new word for it if what these people are doing has none of the business processes that publishing has. "Posted for sale without redaction, vetting, or competitive consideration" is a bit too long.
 

CACTUSWENDY

An old, sappy, and happy one.
Kind Benefactor
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
12,860
Reaction score
1,667
Location
Sunny Arizona
Well, you can sell your house through a real estate company or sell it yourself. Either way you can/may sell it. When the check is in the hand, that is the bottom line.

The implied disgrace that use to come with SP is now moot. This is a new age of getting into the general public hands a work of words. Why some still think it needs to be an area to be trashed is boring. There is a bunch of junk in both areas of publishing. (SP and traditional.) It's been stated many times of some of the old works were first SPed.

To each their own. I for one am not too impressed with which way one goes as long as it is a good story and done pretty well. :Soapbox:
 

Terie

Writer is as Writer does
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
954
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
www.teriegarrison.com
There might be a need for a new word for it if what these people are doing has none of the business processes that publishing has. "Posted for sale without redaction, vetting, or competitive consideration" is a bit too long.

Sorry, but no. Self-publishing has existed for hundreds of years and predates commercial publishing. Any argument that a new word needs to be devised is foolish, snobbish, and a ridiculous attempt to be exclusive and dismissive. Oh, yeah, and ignorant of the history of publishing. Period.
 

pengwinz

Roadtripper
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
114
Reaction score
7
Location
California
Website
www.kjhowebooks.com
Well, in that case, I guess I won't self-publish, because, really, the only reason I'm putting my work out there for the masses to read is, well, because I want to be known as a publisher.Really?What a waste of space.
 

pengwinz

Roadtripper
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
114
Reaction score
7
Location
California
Website
www.kjhowebooks.com
But that doesn't mean they aren't publishing. Of course they're publishing. WTF other word should be used?

I think the word the SP naysayers would have us use is "masturbation." At least that's the impression I get from reading these types of articles.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
197
Reaction score
13
Self-publishing has existed for hundreds of years and predates commercial publishing.

So? Food production predates grocery stores. Does this mean that everybody should revert to growing their own food and that the commercial food industry is evil? Considering that the typical fertilizer used in so-called "organic" farming is manure, it's actually worse for the environment, by volume, than commercial farming.

By the same token, virtually every industry on the planet has existed as a cottage, DIY endeavor at one time or another. This does not put DIY work on the same level or into the same category as industrial production.

Predate = older = unevolved, think about it.

I think the word the SP naysayers would have us use is "masturbation." At least that's the impression I get from reading these types of articles.

It doesn't work, because masturbation typically produces results. What is termed "self-publishing" is not guaranteed to do so as often as masturbation does.
 

Terie

Writer is as Writer does
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
954
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
www.teriegarrison.com
So? Food production predates grocery stores. Does this mean that everybody should revert to growing their own food and that the commercial food industry is evil? Considering that the typical fertilizer used in so-called "organic" farming is manure, it's actually worse for the environment, by volume, than commercial farming.

And none of this has anything whatsoever to do with language and the meaning of words, which is what this thread -- which, incidentally, you started -- is about. Industrial farms are 'farms', and tenant farms are 'farms'. Both are engaged in the activity (and industry) called 'farming'.

Or are you saying that tenant, subsistence, and individual farmers should no longer be allowed to say they're 'farming' because large industrial farms are 'farming'?

Are hand-knitters no longer allowed to say they're 'knitting' because there are machines that create knitted fabrics?

Are artisan glass-blowers no longer allowed to say they're 'glassmaking' because glass is also made by machines in factories?

Seriously, for someone who claims to be an editor, you have an awfully strange view of the meaning of words.

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 42

Seriously, for someone who claims to be an editor, you have an awfully strange view of the meaning of words.

:rolleyes:

Not to mention a startling lacuna regarding how publishing currently works, and the history of publishing as an industry.
 

Al Stevens

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,537
Reaction score
217
Publishing is a business venture. Self-publishing is a consumer endeavor. They ought not be equated.



They should not introduce their book as having been "published" either. That was the point of that blog post.
Too much elitism and language litigation in here. Ben Franklin was a self-publisher. That's good enough for me.

Carry on.
 

mima

Registered
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
humans love to categorize. we also love to stratify ourselves, perhaps as a subset of this love of organization. macallister, you're denying AE's wish to engage in something that is convulsing this industry right now by saying he's a troll for disagreeing with you. with review sites still banning self-published books and national writers' groups denying self-publishing as "a career path" and agents opening self-publishing, oops i mean assisted-publishing venues, this may seem tired to people in the know, and offensive to those of us who are trying a valid, growing business opportunity, but really, I think he's just ardently struggling with the quality thing that thousands, including me, have done before him.

when i sit down at a writer's group and look at a handful of faces who identify as "published authors" i'm not there to rank myself, i'm there to talk to other authors. "what do you write?" is valid on a first date. "who are you published with?" is one of those bases that deserves to be earned by later dates, lol. and whenever i get faced with such a question by strangers i know they have ranking issues themselves, whether that be self-esteem or industry opinions i disagree with. the industry did this over the last 5 years or so with epublishing. self publishing is a new variation of the quality issue that will ALWAYS haunt people who feel the need to be validated. before epublishing it was (still is) "small press."

AE, to answer your question about what i'd be willing to pay for someone else's book vs my own... no. i am not willing to pay $350 for a friend's book (which was my overhead for editing, cover, and formatting). so i suppose that in truth, i do not want nor have i earned the word "publisher". however, by taking this financial risk and investing GOBS of hours into the "posting" effort, i have earned the word "author" and thus i am entitled to a smile of sheer joy at seeing my title on Amazon's screen, which btw is PRICELESS.

so i was trying to answer your question seriously and with sympathy, but here's something else to consider: the beginning might be totally different but the end point is the same. despite all the semantics and rubrics and what not, my book is as available and in the same exact access procedure as Nora Roberts'. Amazon is developing a ghetto, yes, but they haven't implemented it fully. So in a recognized business sense [ranked by a world-power corporation] I am published and publisher.
 

Deleted member 42

Self-publishing is published, it's just that the entire process differs from traditional publishing.

Actually, if the self-publisher does it right, the publication process is exactly the same as it is for commercial trade publishing.
 

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
17,762
Reaction score
7,729
Location
Near the gargoyles
Website
www.alessandrakelley.com
Self-publishing is published, it's just that the entire process differs from traditional publishing.

I honestly don't know how "traditional publishing" is a technical term of art distinct from "self-publishing." When I hear "traditional publishing," I think of 16th century guys with printing presses doing up their manuscripts and hawking them for a penny outside St. Paul's. Which these days would count as self-publishing.

What are the terms people use in this discussion? How are they defined?
 

Deleted member 42

I honestly don't know how "traditional publishing" is a technical term of art distinct from "self-publishing." When I hear "traditional publishing," I think of 16th century guys with printing presses doing up their manuscripts and hawking them for a penny outside St. Paul's. Which these days would count as self-publishing.

What are the terms people use in this discussion? How are they defined?

Traditional publishing is not used in the industry; it was a phrase largely popularized by PublishAmerica.

Commercial publishing and trade publishing refer to publishers who use conventional distribution and offer standard returns etc. You will sometimes see "consumer publishing" used to mean the same thing—the big six, their subsidiaries, and independent publishers and small presses who still offer standard discounts and return practices.

Commercial publishing is a larger Venn diagram than trade, in that, for instance, textbook publishers are commercial but they often have slightly different distribution models than trade publishers. Trade publishers are the ones who fill most of the shelves at your local independent or chain bookstore.

And there's a UK phrase that I can't remember right now that has an entirely different meaning there than it does here wrt to publishing . . . gah. I'll likely remember it at 3:00 AM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MartinD

Thought I'd stop by
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
383
Reaction score
12
Location
Northern California
This thread exists for the purpose of slamming self-published writers. Another Editor doesn't want a discussion, he/she wants to argue his point and the point seems to be, writers don't count unless Doubleday (Random House, Penguin, etc.) publishes them.

I disagree.
 

Deleted member 42

This thread exists for the purpose of slamming self-published writers. Another Editor doesn't want a discussion, he/she wants to argue his point and the point seems to be, writers don't count unless Doubleday (Random House, Penguin, etc.) publishes them.

I disagree.

Feel feel to report the post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.