diary insert

oasis · Jul 25, 2011

I would like to know if agents would frown upon a diary insert from a first-time novel submitter. If its of any relevance, the diary is written in medieval Europe.

Would I need to italicize or put it in a specific format?
(line skipping, page breaks, headings, margin changes, etc. )

Thanks

Old Hack · Jul 25, 2011

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. If you're asking if an agent might be interested in a book in the format of the diary of someone from Medieval Europe then I'd say there's no reason why not, so long as it's well-written, has an interesting premise, and is sent to the right agents.

There are stickies all over the place on correct manuscript format: try looking in the Novels section, I think there's a useful thread there.

oasis · Jul 26, 2011

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I mean that the whole book would be in narrative form, where a character reads someone else's diary. It would go for several paragraphs or possibly a chapter.

Old Hack · Jul 26, 2011

I see no reason why that would be a turn-off for agents. So long as the writing is clear and compelling.

Becca_H · Jul 27, 2011

Nothing wrong with a novel containing diary extracts, or written in diary form.

Italics are normally used just for the occasional emphasis of certain words. Italicising a large block of text would make it impossible to read comfortably.

oasis · Jul 27, 2011

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Thank you very much.

Anybody know how I can learn how to format a diary extract? Just want to make sure the line skipping and indenting would be correct.

Becca_H · Jul 27, 2011

oasis said:
Thank you very much.

Anybody know how I can learn how to format a diary extract? Just want to make sure the line skipping and indenting would be correct.

I'd write it in manuscript format, as I don't think there's one set rule for diaries. The publisher will typeset in line with their house style.

Manuscript format information is here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=657716&postcount=7

oasis · Jul 27, 2011

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thanks.
I understand that I would write the diary in manuscript format. I meant regarding inserting the date, though. Do I center it? Indent? etc. Skip a line after it?

Old Hack · Jul 27, 2011

Do whatever you like so long as it's clear and consistent. If the book is ever picked up the publisher will typeset it to its liking anyway.

graywillow · Jul 28, 2011

oasis said:
thanks.
I understand that I would write the diary in manuscript format. I meant regarding inserting the date, though. Do I center it? Indent? etc. Skip a line after it?

I think you mentioned above that the diary would be read by another character? If so, then it should appear in regular dialog format, IMO. A smart reader will pick up on this being the case.

Otherwise, look to books with diary entries in them -- there are different ways to do it, but it should be clear, concise, and consistent.

oasis · Jul 28, 2011

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graywillow, I'm not sure what you mean by inserting it in dialogue, if the character is reading it. What I meant was that I would have to put it outside of dialogue, because I want a longer, more intimate entry:
_______
Steve picked up Sally's diary and started reading.

May 2, 1997

Dear Diary,

I ate a piece of cake but realized it was actually cheese.

[end of diary]
Steve closed the diary. There was no reason for him to pick it up in the first place. He tore up the pages and went outside to steal a puppy.
_______

I feel the above format looks awkward. I'm just very worried that it would look unprofessional because its got lines skipped in the wrong places, I used the words "end of diary," etc. I understand that publishers can edit it however they like, but is it possible that such an insert is considered literary taboo if presented to an agent?

PinkAmy · Jul 28, 2011

Gimmicks usually don't work. Your query should show strong enough voice and writing w/o it.

oasis · Jul 28, 2011

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my mistake I didn't make it clear -- I meant in the humble hypothetical where the agent would want see my actual ms, which would contain the diary insert.

Becca C. · Jul 28, 2011

Don't literally type "[end of diary]". It's pretty obvious that "Steve closed the diary" isn't a part of the diary entry itself.

oasis · Jul 29, 2011

Its just that to agents, sectionbreaks and writing outside the common ms format is usually frowned upon. I'm trying to decide if diary inserts are considered part of that taboo or not.

Its really frustrating and I apologize that I am harping this thread to death.

agentpaper · Jul 29, 2011

In my book there are several instances where my character reads a journal entry or a diary entry from another character. What I did to set it off from the regular text is to set the margins for the journal entry to 1.5" on both sides, and in a different font. I also put a larger space between the narrative and the journal entry.

Emily Winslow · Jul 29, 2011

If the diary section is large, it could be its own chapter. For example:

Chapter six ends: He lifted the dusty book from the trunk and opened it.

Chapter seven begins: Oct 12th, 1435 (I assume the style of date writing would be different; you know what I mean)

Dear Diary (of course, you would begin with something less cliche and more setting-appropriate)

You get the idea.

The novel "Ghost Writer" by John Harwood is partly based on the conceit of short stories written in the past being found by the present protagonist, and hinting at family secrets. Excellent book, and clearly told.

Emily Winslow · Jul 29, 2011

agentpaper said:
In my book there are several instances where my character reads a journal entry or a diary entry from another character. What I did to set it off from the regular text is to set the margins for the journal entry to 1.5" on both sides, and in a different font. I also put a larger space between the narrative and the journal entry.

I agree. For shorter sections (letters, book excerpts, etc.) the indents on both sides with extra spaces between the excerpt and the "regular" text is my preferred method too. I personally don't change font.

PinkAmy · Jul 29, 2011

oasis said:
Its just that to agents, sectionbreaks and writing outside the common ms format is usually frowned upon. I'm trying to decide if diary inserts are considered part of that taboo or not.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought you meant including a diary in a query as an extra way to get attention for your MS.
I think diary inserts can be particularly interesting, especially if the story is told in 3rd person, but even if they aren't, as long as the diary insert is a way to propel the story forward or give deeper insight into the character without being an info dump.

oasis · Jul 29, 2011

thank you!

diary insert

oasis

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

oasis

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Becca_H

Where am I again?

oasis

Becca_H

Where am I again?

oasis

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

graywillow

Start with a bang.

oasis

PinkAmy

New kid, be gentle!

oasis

Becca C.

oasis

agentpaper

One of many

Emily Winslow

Do Not Walk on the Grass

Emily Winslow

Do Not Walk on the Grass

PinkAmy

New kid, be gentle!

oasis