Copyright

daydreameriam1 · Jul 23, 2011

I am curious about copyrighting. I have head that if you write it and publish it that is your copyright. I use to belong to a group and we sent each other out work over the net so that we can critique it. Sometimes i worry about that. I know they wouldn't take my story just as i wouldn't theirs. My story is completely different from what they would ever write. But still. So do I have anything to worry about or should I copywrite what I have finished of my book? My husband has me a little paranoid. Usually i don't even worry about it, but he said something that made me think. LOL Thanks.

Cyia · Jul 23, 2011

daydreameriam1 said:
I am curious about copywriting. I have head that if you write it and publish it that is your copywrite. I use to belong to a group and we sent each other out work over the net so that we can critique it. Sometimes i worry about that. I know they wouldn't take my story just as i wouldn't theirs. My story is completely different from what they would ever write. But still. So do I have anything to worry about or should I copywrite what I have finished of my book? My husband has me a little paranoid. Usually i don't even worry about it, but he said something that made me think. LOL Thanks.

Assuming you're in the US, as soon as your work is in a fixed form (as in a document you can send) you own the copyright. It's not registered, but you own it. When the book is published, a copyright will be filed by the publisher.

You don't have anything to worry about, as even in the exceptionally unlikely even something were to happen, your correspondence logs (like the "sent" file from your email account) show that the work originated with you.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 23, 2011

You mean copyright.

There's a fabulous copyright FAQ right here.

Ergo · Jul 23, 2011

One of the best things you can do is email your work in progress to yourself. Not only does it provide a trail of bread crumbs by date, it also makes for a nice retrievable copy from cyberspace should your cpu decide to go renegade.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 24, 2011

Ergo said:
One of the best things you can do is email your work in progress to yourself. Not only does it provide a trail of bread crumbs by date, it also makes for a nice retrievable copy from cyberspace should your cpu decide to go renegade.

Is that necessary? It sounds like the internet version of "the poor man's copyright" -- that urban legend piece of uselessness that has authors needlessly mailing manuscripts to themselves in some folklorish hope of proving copyright.

Need I mention that Poor Man's Copyright is mythic and unnecessary?

bonitakale · Jul 24, 2011

Alessandra Kelley said:
Is that necessary? It sounds like the internet version of "the poor man's copyright" -- that urban legend piece of uselessness that has authors needlessly mailing manuscripts to themselves in some folklorish hope of proving copyright.

Need I mention that Poor Man's Copyright is mythic and unnecessary?

Not necessary, and I don't know whether the technology would work to prove anything or not, but as a last desperate hope to retrieve your writing after everything else goes to hell, it sounds reasonable.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 24, 2011

bonitakale said:
Not necessary, and I don't know whether the technology would work to prove anything or not, but as a last desperate hope to retrieve your writing after everything else goes to hell, it sounds reasonable.

That's why we burn writing to CDs and back it up on thumb drives.

daydreameriam1 · Jul 24, 2011

Sorry about the spelling. I was thinking writing, duh. I will just blame it on the fact it was the wee hours of the morning. I'm aloud to make spelling errors. LOL I just fixed it.

daydreameriam1 · Jul 24, 2011

I have heard of mailing my work to myself. But I have it on a external drive.

daydreameriam1 · Jul 24, 2011

I will check out the copyright FAQs. Thanks!

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

daydreameriam1 said:
Sorry about the spelling. I was thinking writing, duh. I will just blame it on the fact it was the wee hours of the morning. I'm aloud to make spelling errors. LOL I just fixed it.

No worries; it's an easy error, but it's also potentially confusing because copy write means "to write copy."

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

Ergo said:
One of the best things you can do is email your work in progress to yourself. Not only does it provide a trail of bread crumbs by date, it also makes for a nice retrievable copy from cyberspace should your cpu decide to go renegade.

It's a super supplementary backup; it doesn't mean a whole lot in an actual trial.

Hbooks · Jul 24, 2011

Alessandra Kelley said:
Is that necessary? It sounds like the internet version of "the poor man's copyright" -- that urban legend piece of uselessness that has authors needlessly mailing manuscripts to themselves in some folklorish hope of proving copyright.

Need I mention that Poor Man's Copyright is mythic and unnecessary?

I do it daily, mainly because it would be such an inconvenience if my computer died (which they all do eventually) and I lost however many thousand words and tiny little edits I'd have to go back through and find. I see it as no different than saving a copy on an external drive or memory stick, but it's quicker for me to just attach the file to an email.

Plus, as the others have said, it's a great trail of what was written when if there's ever any question of who wrote it (which I agree is a remote possibility.)

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

Hbooks said:
Plus, as the others have said, it's a great trail of what was written when if there's ever any question of who wrote it (which I agree is a remote possibility.)

Actually, it's not.

It can be difficult to prove provenance of email; email in context -- for instance a discussion of edits with a beta reader, an editor, or an agent -- has merit; email to prove time and date, not so much.

Proof of IP ownership based on assertion of creation is generally proved more via cross examination, than time and date stamps.

Things like hard copy with your hand written edits, detailed discussions of edits and brainstorming, and intimate knowledge of the text are the central proofs.

diem_seven · Jul 24, 2011

However remote the possibility of an unpublished author's work being plagiarized, the possibility still exists.

When I was young, I had friends who would take pencil drawings I gave them, and they'd erase my signature, replace it with their own, and tell people that they drew them. This was a long time ago, but it was a real eye-opener for me.

I trust no one with my work. It's mine, and I protect what's mine. This is me, though. Others may be less...experienced.

I register all of my seriously developed work with the US Copyright Office. Yes, you do own the intellectual copyright as soon as you produce any literary property; however, a US Copyright is an invincible boon in court. The cost is nominal. A copyright costs 35 bucks and the application can be completed online. (http://www.copyright.gov/eco/)

I realize 35 bucks is a lot of money to some people -- me included. This is your desired profession, though. How seriously do you take it?

Worst case: what if someone got a hold of your work and then filed it with the Copyright Office? Illegal, yes - but then the legal burden of proof is on YOU to prove without a doubt that the work is yours.

I've heard (here, I think) that it can be construed as "bad form" to copyright your work before it's published, it bothers some agents and publishers, and communicates a novice understanding of publishing and intellectual property. Then why do we have copyright protection? If an agent, editor, or publisher had a problem with me copyrighting my work, then I would be suspect of them.

:hat:

daydreameriam1 · Jul 24, 2011

Thank you everyone! i guess that is why I am afraid to post my work on here. I come here for advice and all but not sure about posting my work.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

diem_seven said:
I've heard (here, I think) that it can be construed as "bad form" to copyright your work before it is published because it bothers some agents and publishers, and communicates a novice understanding of publishing and intellectual property. Then why do we have copyright protection? If an agent, editor, or publisher had a problem with me copyrighting my work, then I would be suspect of them.

It's an amateur move, and a total PITA to re-register the copyright for publication.

You still have to prove financial loss to be awarded anything in court.

Registration allows the judge to award higher punitive damages—once you prove financial loss. If the work hasn't been published, it's hard to prove financial loss.

You have "protection" ab initio.

Moreover, if you revise a work post registration, you then have to deal with a derivative work.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

daydreameriam1 said:
Thank you everyone! i guess that is why I am afraid to post my work on here. I come here for advice and all but not sure about posting my work.

No one is making you post anything .

SYW is password protected, and not Googleable.

You can always go back and delete your posts after crit.

Until a work is published, it has no commercial value.

diem_seven · Jul 24, 2011

Don't worry too much about posting for critique. It's valuable to hear honest opinions. For your own protection, don't post everything.

Online critiques generally shouldn't exceed 1,000 words per post, anyway. You get more responses posting small bits - which aren't anything someone would really want to steal, reverse-engineer, and sell.

diem_seven · Jul 24, 2011

@Medievalist: Where does it say that unpublished authors should not copyright their work? I have never heard this before. Is this just opinion of some people on AW?

Jersey Chick · Jul 24, 2011

Generally speaking, it's regarded that filing a copyright before a work is published is a waste of time. It's up to you if you want to waste your time and money, but generally, it isn't worth it.

Again, a work is automatically copyrighted once it's put into a fixed format.

dangerousbill · Jul 24, 2011

daydreameriam1 said:
Thank you everyone! i guess that is why I am afraid to post my work on here. I come here for advice and all but not sure about posting my work.

We do it. I do it on three different sites.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 24, 2011

diem_seven said:
@Medievalist: Where does it say that unpublished authors should not copyright their work? I have never heard this before. Is this just opinion of some people on AW?

It's the general commonsense wisdom of people in publishing, several IP attorneys, and any number of authors.

It's discussed in the Copyright FAQ, with links to at least two people.

You keep misusing the term copyright to refer to registration. Registration is the act of registering a copyright with the appropriate depository, which in the U. S. is the Library of Congress.

A creator does not have to do anything to obtain copyright; it exists from the moment of inception.

Registering copyright provides a fixed date, and some added protection in the event a published work's rights holder's rights are infringed. It isn't in itself proof of anything other than that someone paid 35.00 to register the copyright.

Registering copyright doesn't mean automatic money. You still have to go to court, and convince a judge, if not a judge and jury, and you may win your case and not win damages.

Putting © on a submission is like saying "Clueless amateur" in neon--you might as well write a cover letter in crayon.

And the hassels of re-registering a copyright, and determining if it's derivative or not are enough to put some publishers in a less than good mood, or even make them lose interest.

There is some merit in artists registering copyright -- especially photographers, and especially if they do a bulk registration. But it's a different kind of market, completely, there, than it is for written works.

But IANAL, and you should do whatever you want.

diem_seven · Jul 24, 2011

I've never heard anything like this, ever. Sounds like theorycrafting.

The links to two people in the FAQ you wrote are comments from other AW posters. Do you have other, outside sources?

But IANAL (I am not a lawyer), and you should do whatever you want.

Good advice. By the way, it's your opinion that including a copyright page screams "clueless amateur", it's hardly hard-gained "commonsense wisdom". lol

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 24, 2011

Um. I trust Medievalist's opinion on this one. She's pretty experienced.

Copyright

daydreameriam1

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Deleted member 42

Ergo

Chronic State of Query

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

bonitakale

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

daydreameriam1

daydreameriam1

daydreameriam1

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42

Hbooks

Deleted member 42

diem_seven

daydreameriam1

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42

diem_seven

diem_seven

Jersey Chick

Up all night to get Loki

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Deleted member 42

diem_seven

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian