Has this plot been overdone?

dementedtinkerbell · May 4, 2011

Please be gentle with me, it's my first post in this part of the forum!

I'm working away on my story and I decided to look around in here and now I'm wondering if my plot is so cliched and overdone, it should be abandoned and never spoken of again.

I've got a remnant of a book from a dark priesthood (that people don't believe exist any more on the grounds that they were squished like cockroaches centuries ago) that says their dark God can be brought back with the blood of a child.

The child is a sort of son to the bad guys (well, it appears that way to everyone) and he's the one they're going to sacrifice when they get him to a certain temple on All Souls. The only problem for my bad guys is, they've got to keep him as innocent as possible so they have to do good things and be decent people whenever he's around. they're being driven bonkers at the moment heh :evil

I've also got an MC who's a gambler, a drunk and has a cowardly streak a mile wide. He gets dragged into the whole thing by two guys who work for the church (the 'good' God') even though he doesn't want to be and randomly does a runner every now and then when he thinks he's got a chance of getting out of it.

My MC also happens to be the boys real father (although he doesn't know it) after having a one night stand with someone rather high up in the food chain. He's also the product of the King's one night stand and doesn't know that either.

Both sides get to the temple on All Souls and the MC saves the boy at the cost of his own life. Because he's related by blood to the boy, his blood is as good as the boy's for bringing back the dark God and the heroes lose. The part I like best is that the dark God takes the MC's body as his own so in effect, the guy who is a last minute hero ends up being the dark God.

Has this kind of plot been overdone? After reading around in here, I'm kind of worried that it might be.

Any help or suggestions are gratefully received at this point!

Nick Blaze · May 4, 2011

As far as I'm concerned, so long as it's written well, I don't care what the plot is like. However, I will say that it's always best to push yourself to not rely on clichés and overdone plot ideas, but I don't see too much of a problem.

alleycat · May 4, 2011

I don't read much in the science fiction or fantasy genres, so these are just casual comments.

It's often hard to tell whether something has been overdone or not based on a short synopsis. It's like mystery stories. The typical mystery involves someone being murdered, a detective (amateur or professional) who investigates, a bunch of suspects, hidden clues and hidden motives, the detective uncovering the truth at the end, etc., etc. It's the details, characters, and cleverness that makes one mystery story different from the next.

So, while I see some similarities with your story to other stories, the details, characters, settings, and other elements are the things that can make your story unique.

In any event, don't use "it could be like . . . " as an excuse not to write a story you want to write. If someone had asked me ten years ago if the world needed any more vampire stories after all those Anne Rice books I would have said "hell, no". I guess the writer of Twilight didn't get the word.

Good luck with it.

dementedtinkerbell · May 4, 2011

Thankyou both for your replies

I guess I just got a little nervous after reading around here a little and had a minor panic attack over whether or not it was completely cliched and tired out.

Thanks again!

Shoeless · May 4, 2011

A novel relies almost as much on execution as it does on concept. How something is told adversely affects what is being told.

alleycat · May 4, 2011

Remember too that the story will probably change as you write. You will come up with new ideas and characters, and sometimes your characters will seem to take off on their own.

I don't think it's generally a good idea to start with "I'm going to write a story like . . . ," but I wouldn't worry too much about your story being like other stories.

dementedtinkerbell · May 4, 2011

Shoeless - I think I'm going to snarf that post and make it my personal mantra :

alleycat - You're right about that, when I first wrote the outline, I didn't have the two church warriors and the MC wasn't going to be the dark God. I just know it's going to change again as I carry on writing it!

NewGuy · May 4, 2011

I agree that execution is paramount. Most plots have been done before, and there is no shame or harm in dusting one off for a new spin. In fact, people really enjoy having some sense of familiarity, even if it not obvious to them consciously. But if your characters and plot turns are boring and predictable, then you've got problems.

NewGuy

PeteDutcher · May 4, 2011

alleycat said:
Remember too that the story will probably change as you write. You will come up with new ideas and characters, and sometimes your characters will seem to take off on their own.

I don't think it's generally a good idea to start with "I'm going to write a story like . . . ," but I wouldn't worry too much about your story being like other stories.

I can confirm that. The novel I recently completed bounced around for years in my head as I restarted at least 6 times because of plot and character changes.

As far as "cliche" I look at it this way...it became cliche because it was successful.

In the end, it's the appeal your writing style has to the reader. If the book is well structured and well written, people will enjoy it and it will stand apart.

jmarkbyrnes · May 4, 2011

Shoeless said:
A novel relies almost as much on execution as it does on concept. How something is told adversely affects what is being told.

I totally agree with the above statement. Beside, rarely is there a plot with anything original in it. Sometimes it's the combination of plot elements and the afore mentioned execution of that combination that matters the most.

I've read a good bit of fantasy (by no means all of it, or even close), and the only books I've read with something similar to what you described are "The Books of the South," a few books in Glen Cook's Black Company series.

-J. Mark Byrnes

merssong · May 4, 2011

One thing I always enjoy as a reader, is when an author can lead me to expect one thing, and then twist it so it comes out completely different. It gives me a nice surprise (again, depending on execution), and draws me deeper into the story. And you can't do that without starting with something cliche.

AceTachyon · May 4, 2011

Echoing Shoeless. It's all in the execution.

Write it, write it, write it.

We'll be waiting to read the result.

Liosse de Velishaf · May 4, 2011

Your main premise of bringing back a dark god with blood/child sacrifice has been done a few times, but otherwise, you didn't set off any "rip-off alert!" bells in my head as I read the basic otline of your story. You're probably pretty safe, and as others have said, execution is often what matters most.

dementedtinkerbell · May 4, 2011

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to my post, I really appreciate it

AceTachyon - I'm writing it as fast as I can, I promise!

jmarkbyrnes - I haven't heard of those books before but I'll go and look them up. Thankyou for pointing them out to me

BardSkye · May 4, 2011

The books I read so often I wear them out tend to be new spins on old fairy tales.

If you let the book develop in its own way, it'll turn out fine. Go for it.

PeteMC · May 5, 2011

As already said, you should be fine with this. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I did spot a potential plot hole in your outline though -

You have this:

their dark God can be brought back with the blood of a child....The only problem for my bad guys is, they've got to keep him as innocent as possible so they have to do good things and be decent people whenever he's around

which implies an innocent child is required. Then you have this:

Both sides get to the temple on All Souls and the MC saves the boy at the cost of his own life. Because he's related by blood to the boy, his blood is as good as the boy's for bringing back the dark God

which implies it's the bloodline of this child that is required, not innocence, and a decidedly un-innocent sounding adult will do if the bloodline is the same.

Either is fine, but I'm not sure you can have both.

P.

Liosse de Velishaf · May 5, 2011

PeteMC said:
As already said, you should be fine with this. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I did spot a potential plot hole in your outline though -

You have this:

which implies an innocent child is required. Then you have this:

which implies it's the bloodline of this child that is required, not innocence, and a decidedly un-innocent sounding adult will do if the bloodline is the same.

Either is fine, but I'm not sure you can have both.

P.

Nice spot. Perhaps the bad guys can just be wrong about needing the innocence?

dementedtinkerbell · May 5, 2011

I spotted that too after I posted and did a facepalm but I hadn't figured out how to sort it out. I like your idea liosse, it would be doubly ironic for my bad guys to have behaved themselves all the way to the temple only to find out that they needn't have bothered.

I like being mean to my characters hehe.

Mac H. · May 6, 2011

dementedtinkerbell said:
The only problem for my bad guys is, they've got to keep him as innocent as possible so they have to do good things and be decent people whenever he's around. they're being driven bonkers at the moment heh

I really like this part of the idea - it is a bit different from the typical 'find a virgin to sacrifice' type story.

Both sides get to the temple on All Souls and the MC saves the boy at the cost of his own life. Because he's related by blood to the boy, his blood is as good as the boy's for bringing back the dark God and the heroes lose.

which implies it's the bloodline of this child that is required, not innocence, and a decidedly un-innocent sounding adult will do if the bloodline is the same.

I agree - but it can be resolved easily. Forget about the 'bloodline' bit .. even if they are related it isn't important. It isn't 'innocence' so much as 'godly' or 'good' or whatever that is important.

And the MC saving the kid at the end is the only good thing he's ever done - but that's enough. The idea that the kid's 'goodness' rubbed off on him and he arced from being a selfish tyrant to someone with compassion is great ... and that 'goodness' or 'purity of motive' or whatever is what matters.

Good luck !

Mac

Liosse de Velishaf · May 6, 2011

Mac H. said:
I really like this part of the idea - it is a bit different from the typical 'find a virgin to sacrifice' type story.

I agree - but it can be resolved easily. Forget about the 'bloodline' bit .. even if they are related it isn't important. It isn't 'innocence' so much as 'godly' or 'good' or whatever that is important.

And the MC saving the kid at the end is the only good thing he's ever done - but that's enough. The idea that the kid's 'goodness' rubbed off on him and he arced from being a selfish tyrant to someone with compassion is great ... and that 'goodness' or 'purity of motive' or whatever is what matters.

Good luck !

Mac

I was going to make a similar suggestion. Saving the kid at the cost of his life is a pretty "good" sacrifice, and the dark god could probably draw a great deal of power from that if you want to go that way. It's definitely the sort of tragic ending I like to see.

anthony draco · May 6, 2011

I don't see anything wrong with it. I wouldn't think waking up the anti-thesis of god would take any less.

Well, as for having a criminal bloodline but innocent child, I really don't think it matters to have both. They're not an opposite of the same thing. You can have both, and it would be quite a twisted requirement. It's not like you need him short and tall at the same time. That's impossible. You can even have the boy an innocent criminal. (This sounds like a contradiction, but someone can be psychologically led to being one, like being taught that gutting people is a way to help him, etc.)

Temple of All Souls is a great name.

HobbitTon · May 6, 2011

Don't worry too much about it. Just write, and see how it goes. From what I read though, it looks pretty interesting.

TheMindKiller · May 6, 2011

Thinking is the enemy of creativity.

That's what it says on the back of my iPad. Don't worry about what you're writing. Don't worry if you've read something similar. Don't worry if you think it might be overdone.

Tell the story you want to tell. To Hell with everyone else. If it's a story worth telling, and if you've told it well, it will sell on its own merits.

Don't overthink what you're writing.

(Ray Bradbury said that first line, by the way. He wrote fantastic stories that didn't even make any sense... But he wrote what he wanted to write and people loved him for it.)

dementedtinkerbell · May 9, 2011

Thankyou everyone for your replies, you've given me a bunch of great ideas for making my characters want to curl up and hide under a rock somewhere. I also apologise for taking a while to get back to the thread, I'm still recovering from surgery so I still have some bad days.

Has this plot been overdone?

dementedtinkerbell

Nick Blaze

Jun-Ikkyu

alleycat

Still around

dementedtinkerbell

Shoeless

alleycat

Still around

dementedtinkerbell

NewGuy

New kid, be gentle!

PeteDutcher

Twitter: @petedutcherjr

jmarkbyrnes

Nobody and Nothin'

merssong

AceTachyon

Odd person

Liosse de Velishaf

dementedtinkerbell

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore

PeteMC

@PeteMC666

Liosse de Velishaf

dementedtinkerbell

Mac H.

Board Visitor

Liosse de Velishaf

anthony draco

HobbitTon

TheMindKiller

Only I Will Remain

dementedtinkerbell